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Toe-in For 3" Lift On A Ross-box Jeep

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by teletech, Aug 24, 2020.

  1. Aug 24, 2020
    teletech

    teletech Member

    Santa Cruz, CA
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2016
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    I suspect this must have been covered to death, but apparently my search-fu is weak.
    I looked up the toe-in for a factory Jeep and it was 1/32"-3/32" but this assumes a factory height where I'm guessing compression or release of the springs should increase toe-in. In the case of lifted springs though as the nose raises it will toe-in but with compression it will toe-out so I'm trying to figure out the best setting to minimize the effect on steering.
    No, I'm not going to change the steering box to a newer style.
     
  2. Aug 24, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs 2019 Sponsor

    At the foot of...
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    But you really should change to a 1 piece tie rod. That'll eliminate the toe changes you describe, and it's not a big deal to do.
     
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  3. Aug 24, 2020
    teletech

    teletech Member

    Santa Cruz, CA
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    I'm concerned that having both wheels turn the same direction with every change in un/loading the suspension might cause even more change in direction of the vehicle than just variable toe. Is that not a problem in practice?

    From what I read it seemed like a tie-rod flip might be a good answer for me.
    In case it wasn't clear my goal is to reduce how much the vehicle pulls from one side to the other on acceleration and deceleration.

    I've rebuilt the Ross box and verified everything else is tight and in good order, replacing parts as needed (new bellcrank, etc.). I really have no other complaints with the steering as it is but this change in direction is... disquieting. I'm sort of amused that it seems a lot more noticeable now that I've replaced all my spring bushings and rebuilt the steering, I think there was so much slop in everything before it was mushy enough to not stand out that much but now it's a much crisper shift.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  4. Aug 24, 2020
    timgr

    timgr Eppur si muove. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I would adjust it to specified toe-in at rest. With the two-piece tie rods, bump steer will be worse than at stock height due to the increased angle of the tie rods. You can accept however it turns out or substitute a one-piece tie rod. Herm sells a kit, likely others.
     
  5. Aug 24, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Jul 18, 2013
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    3,284
    I run 2.5" lift with Ross and single tie rod...works very well. Bump steer with both wheels going the same direction is very manageable and typically kicks a bit to the passenger side (and exists to some extent on most saggy boxes as well unless the pitman arm is dropped). Using a 2 tie rod set up, the bump steer causes the wheels to steer opposite of one another...much more sketchy and unstable and less predictable as to which way it will kick the front end.

    Fwiw...I set the toe to factory specs and found caster shims were the most beneficial in terms of improving steering
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
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  6. Aug 24, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    The one part of the equation not mentioned is the fact that the lift springs make the suspension stiffer and less susceptible to bump steer being as big of an issue. I'm not saying the other guys aren't right of course because the one piece tie rod is physically a better setup. I agree with setting the toe in to original specs and see how it handles.
     
  7. Aug 26, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    In my experience, a 1-piece tie rod directly linking both spindles together is superior to the original 2-piece setup. With the 2-piece design, the toe measurement is constantly fluctuating with suspension movement. I suspect a lifted suspenion aggravates this situation by putting more angle on the short tie rods. At least with a 1-piece tie rod linking the spindles, you are taking the variation out of the toe in setting. You can actually adjust and set the toe to a consistent measurement.
    -Donny
     
  8. Aug 26, 2020
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    Can you recommend a good one piece tie rod?
     
  9. Aug 26, 2020
    1967 CJ5A

    1967 CJ5A Mike

    Raleigh, NC
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    I also agree that a one piece tie rod is the way to go. You will have bump steer, but it is very managable and predictable where the constantly changing toe is not predictable. It also goes a long way to reduce high speed shaking, because the two piece setup is very hard to keep tight once the angle is severe.

    Adding a tie rod flip to the one piece setup should correct any bump steer that you have, but you may decide it is not even necessary. I have a 2.5" lift with one piece tie rod and it isn't enough to really bother me.
     
  10. Sep 14, 2020
    Brislin06

    Brislin06 New Member

    Pennsylvania
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    Which 1 piece tie rod is everyone running ?
     
  11. Sep 14, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    I think they were sourced from a later CJ, possibly an intermediate with the D30 narrow track front axle. I believe the length is 35 1/2" for the tube length. It is able to use all the original tie rod ends. This assumes you are converting from the original 2-piece setup on D25's or D27's on a CJ.
    -Donny
     
  12. Sep 15, 2020
    1967 CJ5A

    1967 CJ5A Mike

    Raleigh, NC
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    35.5" is correct for the D27, but D30 tie rods are wider at 40.5".

    I got my tie rod from a postal Jeep DJ5 (2wd). It was maybe an inch too long but there were plenty of threads so it was no problem to cut a little off each end. I retained one of the original tie rods for the drag link. The knuckle came from a gladiator.
     

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