The "You're an Idiot" restoration

Mud? After all this work, I think I'll put this thing on carpeting in my house garage and look at it! R) Should never need to hose it off. Just kidding and thanks I'll shoot the topcoat with some gloss.

 

Question folks. This is probably discussed all over but I haven't been able to find a clear explanation. When I swap over the disc brakes from my donor axle to the original (that had drums) are the original knuckles able to be used or do I need to use the knuckles from the donor as well. I know the spindle and hubs need to be swapped out but it wasn't clear whether the actual knuckles are different (haven't torn down the donor just yet to hold side by side).

Also - are the axle shafts identicle from the 72 original and 77 donor axle?

 

Dana 30 topcoat. I took posimoto's advice and went with a gloss black. Looks sharp if not a bit gaudy for a jeep but it's underneath so as long as it protects the axle housing I am good with it.

I used this duplicolor paint. Really went on well and dried fast. Much better than the rustoleum if my opinion and about the same cost.\



This was the result. Two coats of primer under 2 coats for topcoat.







I gotta try and pick up some inner seals now and at least get the carrier and pinion back into it then start figuring out the disc conversion from my 77 CJ7 donor axle.

 

It's a thing of beauty. You'll be glad you went with the gloss.

 

Paingint is done so I re-opend the carrier housing.



I got inner seals (timken 710068). I put these in by starting them with some hammer taps. Then I used my trusty 5/8 in threaded rod with a socket inside the lip of the seal (not on the edge, the edge isn't too beefy but the right sized socket fit in the cavity just inside the outer lip). I then had a couple BF washers on the end of the axle tube and threaded a nut on each end and pulled them right in. Worked awesome. Remember the bugle end goes outward.











I then popped the pinion back in. I thought this was going to be plug and play but when I got it in and torqued down, I had almost no preload on the pinion - WTF. I didn't check it before I tore things down so I don't know what it was originally. So I tinkered around with the shim pack I had in there which consisted of 6 shims. They were 3, 5, 6, 12, 15, 25 by my crude measuring with a caliper I had. Put all together I got somewhere around 69-70 thousandths. I know those numbers don't all add up right but that's what I measured. I had to come in and do a bit of reading and thinking, this is beyond my normal level of competence but I guess is fairly simple. Remove shims, bearing seats on race closer and hence tighter or more preload. Add shims, backs away and less preload. So i pulled the 12 shim out of the pack and reassembled. Wow, I could hardly turn it and wasn't even torqued up. That was actually a bit of a relief because when I originally put it together it was so lose I thought something had gone terribly wrong along the way (I went back and started re-looking at pics to see if I had dropped something???). Anyway, I pulled it back apart and removed the lightest shim (the 3). I got about 5 in-lbs of preload in that setting. I then finally pulled the 5 or 6 out (really am not sure what is measured). Now I had about 18-20 in-lbs of resistance on the wrench. Good enough. I had read, 20-40 in lbs. I hope that is right! Anyway, I put in the seal and got about 20 in-lbs with it all back together, torqued down and seal installed with new nut.

The removed shim



Also cleaned up the yoke half and p/n for the pinion nut (Omix-ada 16584.01)







Seal used Timken 5778



I then popped the carrier back in place and installed the bearing caps. This added maybe 3-4 in lbs to the pinion preload. Backlash was measured at 4 places around the ring gear and I had about 5 thousandths consistently. I'm not screwing this that thing anymore, the preload is enough horsing around I would lose my mind with an full set up of pinion depth spacers and backlash shims. Ugh! Was thinking to regear someday, uh, maybe not.



I'll now set this aside for a bit and figure out the drum to disc swap.

 

Well done! I've done one gear change on a D30 and it took me forever to get it right. Put it together, take it apart. Repeat repeat repeat repeat . . . . . . . . The pinion depth and pinion preload were the most trying part of the ordeal. Just setting up a new carrier or putting in a locker is a walk in the park compared to a full setup. Next one I'll pay someone to do.

 

Starting the disc swap. NOTE. I have read so many bits and pieces about this swap or conversion (from the chevy brackets) but I have yet to find a one place comprehensive write-up written for the dumb-*** like myself to follow with great pictures. If anyone knows of one please point me to it with a link. I know, google it or search the boards, yes yes yes, but I just can't find a wholesale write-up like there are for so many other things. I like to get my head around things as much as possible so pictures are great. I have read about the 2 bolt vs. 6 bolt and axle stubs being different, using the original drum hubs and needing machining, spindle differences etc. I read some guys being very careful to match things up, and then the next one is just swapping part of it out. Goodness, I don't know what to think as I am starting this. I had wanted to use my original knuckles but I guess the disc ones are cast with a space for some caliper clearance. To confuse myself more, I read earlier knuckles are OK but later ones (both drum style) are not. So, the plan, swap everything over from the ball joints (incl knuckle) out. I am also going to swap out the stub shaft on each axle to use my original carrier shaft from the 72 D30 with the stubs from the 77 D30. Does this sound reasonable??? I'm just certain I'm going to mess this up somehow.


I picked up a 77 CJ7 dana 30 front axle this past summer to use as a donor for the disc brake conversion. I probably should have looked a bit more for one as this one is well worn. However, the parts I need seem like they will be OK and I'll replace all the bearings and seals anyway. It would have been nice to have calipers and rotors that could be used but these are too much work to restore and the rotors are past being shot. There are however some key parts I know I needed like the knuckles themselves, the hubs, spindles, backer plate and the axle stubs. The rest I can buy new at my FLAPS or online. This is the so-called big brake version which was available from 76-78. I believe optional in 76 and mainline in 77-78. In 79, I think it changed to the thinner rotor and 2 bolt mounting bracket for the caliper. I'm sure that is great too, but I really wanted the 76-78 set up. this one as you will see has the 6 bolt caliper backer plate and bigger rotors.

Here is the starting pic. I am really starting to hate rust.








I was worried about what I'd find because when I locked the hub and turned the wheel, the axle didn't catch. I noticed the axle was moving in and out ALOT. Not sure what is the deal. Maybe this thing is worthless, but everything looked OK so far when I was taking it apart. All the splines on the warn hub and the axle shaft look just fine (to me anyway). The lockout hub moves easily and smooth. Thoughts are welcomed here. Maybe the carrier end has too much play or is any of this normal?

I pulled the warn hubs. These are the more common ones, not like the lock-o-matics on my 72. This is what I was expecting to see when I tore down my original rig. Pulled the 6 bolts off.



Inside of the lockout removable outer section



Inside part on the shaft behind the snapring



Grease was all very grey looking. Not sure, maybe some moisture??

Pulled the snap ring and the inside warn gear pulled off nicely to give this view



I removed the outer nut. Look at this thing. Some dip-wad used a chisel to put it on I guess. This crap drives me nuts.





There was a washer behind the first nut. Hm, I believe there should have been 2 washers!

After the first nut was removed, you can see the washer and 2nd nut right behind the 1 washer.





Kind of hard to take pics when you have 50 lbs of grease on your gloves. I also noticed that my nose always starts to itch at this time.

Here is a pic of the stuff that came off behind the inner warn hub gear. You can see, nut, keyed washer, 2nd nut, thrust washer and bearing. I think there should be a 2nd keyed washer but maybe I am wrong. If anyone knows please chime in here.





OK, the bearing in the last photo was the outer wheel hub bearing. I then pulled off the rotor/hub assemble.

This is the next view of the spindle.



removed the 6 backer plate bolts and pulled off the dust shield. that thing is about shot I believe. I'll see if I can salvage it but I may be out of luck. Pretty heavy surface rust and it's just thin material anyway.



I pulled the backer plate off, the spindle off and the axle out. I then was able to drop off the knuckle like before. I'll get some pics of this stuff later. The needle bearing on the inside of the spindle spewed it's guts when I got it off. Maybe that was part of the shaft play, not sure. It was dry and it was shot no question there. The seals were also gone so not surprised I guess. The spindle looks usable I think. Someone had hammered on it a bit but it's in the center section between the bearing seats so I don't think it will hurt anything. I have also seen that sometimes folks drill a small hole in the same part of the spindle in the middle to use a grease needle to load up the shaft/inner spindle with grease once assembled and for maintenance. Anyone think that is a good or bad idea.

 

This is a very pro work. I bought my Jeep in relatively good condition (1971 CJ5, Hurricane engine) and it is just as a toy, I don't need it. WHatever, I spend a lot of time repairing this or that, to have it better, but it takes time and my time is important to look at my family.
My wife likes the Jeep, in summer we go in the country, on small roads, to go shopping in the village or in the farms. We stay on roads because it is quite hard on tracks between the fields. This is the pleasure of my old CJ5.
I drive at no more thant 45 km/H, above it is too windy and roads are narrow; also the brakes are not always efficient, a drum can block suddenly.
We checked them, bu tof course discs are better.

This is to say that your wife will find the CJ5 very nice, for small trips, in summer. So you won't be an idot.

In my opinion it is not value for money to rebuild a new one, but it is funny, of course.
In winter, I'll put on my Mayers hard top, which I am repairing slowly, just taking of some rust and painting with anti-rust paint.
We'll see if we can go shopping with the hard-top. TO conclude, the CJ5 is very good for romantic promenades, I'm sure you wife will appreciate.

TO use a CJ5 for hard crossing and so on, climbing mountains, it'ss possible but my opinion is that old ladies must walk in easy ways.
Not jumping over rocks..

 

Wow, all the way from France. Somehow I am not seeing my wife getting much seat time in the CJ5 ever. I can hardly get her into the TJ which are a whole lot more comfortable than the CJs. I might not even put in a passenger seat, then she can't sit there and complain about the wind!

 

Finished tearing down the donor brakes from the 77 D30.

Here is the pile of stuff I need that I'll be cleaning up for some paint and new bearings etc.



Both spindles had some beating on them but I think the bearing seats are OK



All the seals and spindle bearings were shot.





Pic of the knuckle area that is carved out on the disc brake version. This is the section that causes problems if I was to use the original drum knuckles I think.



Pics of the hubs





These are the calipers to see the numbers. These seem to be available from several FLAPS. New calipers are relatively cheap so no way I'm gonna try to resurrect these rust buckets.





The remnants of the 77 D30. Nothing more of use to me on this.

 

Are there any junk yards with CJ's out your way?

 

You continue to impress me. Nice work .

 

Benmack1,

The rusty D-30 you have is the Dana-30 77-78 Jeep front end with the "Big Brake" option...........as witnessed by the 1.188 thick rotors and the Warn Premium hubs.........the caliper mounting bracket aka the "6 bolt" bracket is what you want. It looks like you have a D-30 already so all of those parts should fit................make sure you use the hubs for the disc's from the later D-30 axle.............throw away the rotors and bye new ones and use the rusty old calipers for a core and you shold be good to go. Wheel rim setback is important with that large caliper so just make sure you have the correct rims or they will hit.

 

Thanks for the info, all very helpful. I feel good, I am in line with your suggestions other than I need to figure out my rim situation with respect to the disc set up. I meant to put a rim on the old axle before I tore it down and totally forgot to do it. I have been tripping over it for 6 months, you'd think I could have tried one on there at one time or another. I've actually got 2 sets of rims for it. I have the original wide rims that came on the jeep with a fat tire (as seen on the original pics). I also have what I believe is a 6 in rim that are supposedly OEM stock rims for the CJ. Not sure if they are or not but eitherway I have to see what fits or doesn't fit.

 

I have been accumulating parts all week. This crap is getting pricey too, even after careful FLAPS and online pricing. I am sure you can find all of this information somewhere on here or the web in general as I did but I had a hell of a time finding things in one place. So if for no other reason than to remind myself later here is as comprehensive list of p/n's that I could put together. Some of this may cross to other D30's but this is meant to be specific to the 1976-1978 5-lug hub with 6-bolt caliper bracket and 1.2 inch (big) rotor DISC brake front dana 30.

Here is what I am replacing on my D30 build up. Pics and progress to follow later.

Timken inner axkle seals (Autozone) - P/N 710068 (these are the ones closest to the diff)
Napa premium rotors (Napa). P/N 4885667
Fenco reman calipers (advance auto) - P/N SLC104 and SLC105.
Balkamp Wheel lugs (Napa) - P/N 641-3103
SKF spindle bearing kit (Napa) - P/N BRG BK1 (the 5 piece kit)
Brakebest pads (O'reilly) - P/N D92
Driveworks wheel hub seals (advance) - P/N S-4131 (seals in the inside of the wheel hub)
Timken Set 45 outer wheel bearings (Autozone) - P/N Set 45
Timken Set 47 inner wheel bearings (Autozone) - P/N Set 47
Spicer U-joints - DrivetrainAmerica.com - P/N 5-260X
Moog greasible upper ball joints (Rockauto.com) - P/N K8194T
Moog lower ball joints (Rockauto.com) - P/N K8195T
Split ring socket (CSE offroad via Amazon.com) Omix-Ada - P/N OAI18039.01

Knuckle to spindle studs - p/n is D/S36326-1 (Dana Spicer). Available from multiple online sources, about $1.70-$2 a piece. I did NOT replace these in my case but wanted to include the p/n since I ran across it.

Here is another interesting set of p/n's I found (please check before taking this as gospel). These are the differences in the p/n's for the drum vs. disc hub wheel bearings, races and seals. These are the LAST 4 DIGITS in the P/N for most bearing manufacturers I have found.

Drum (outer brg 1349) (Outer race 1310) (inner brg 2949) (inner race 2910) (wheel seal 8430S) (spindle bearing BK2)
Disc (outer brg 1349) (Outer race 1310) (inner brg 1349) (inner race 1310) (wheel seal 4131) (spindle bearing BK1)

 

Few and far between. Even less so for a YJ and TJ's are unheard of. The only place I have seen CJ's are a place called Autocycle in Danville Va. I was up there around Thanksgiving and they had about 5 CJ's sitting there. All were totally gone. I suppose a specific part here or there could be useful but by in large they were ready to be crushed. Totally rusted through, all the motors/tranny's etc had been opened and were laying exposed. Axle's looked beat bad etc. Occasionally the Pull-a-part in Winston will have a CJ show up but they are stripped immediately in my experience. I asked at one junkyard (a smaller one) and the guy said he had one come in a couple days before and the guy behind the customer with the CJ offered the guy double what the junkyard offered and he sold it to the guy in line on the spot.

How about down your way - any jeeps in the yards?

 

One yard has about 5 80's CJ's, I have personally pulled all the good stuff off of most of them. Another yard has one, but it's garbage. Slim pickins all around it seems. I'm too far away from any major city to see what they have in their yards

 

If you have a problem with the rims clearing the calipers you can maybe get them to work by using a small spacer. You can get 1" wheel spacers for a lot less than a new set of rims.

 

Reassembling the D30 onto the springs. I have a QUESTION. Originally when I tore it down, there were spacers under the axle perches between the perch and the top of the spring. See the picture below. These seem out of place to me. They sit on top of the stud in the spring that usually inserts into the axle perch for a nice fit. These basically use up that entire stud and essentially nothing then inserts into the perch where it has a hole. Can I leave these out? Any thoughts on the entire situation. What in the world are these things in there for? I assume it was from the factory this way.

 

They're used to set the proper pinion angle for the axle.