Stumped NO MORE!!! :-)

She turns over and over but won't catch and run on her own. What's wrong??

V6 in question is a spare 1bbl "Buick Special" that was sitting in the shop for a year. Changed oil, flushed block, and swapped a known working intake, carb, coil, and Delco dist. onto it. No ignition switch. I just rigged it up to see how it runs on its own (if it blows smoke or whatever).

I get great spark out of all wires (got really shocked during check ) but it just won't catch. When I spray some starting fluid into the carb, I only get an explosion (violent) out the carb or out the side exhaust. Sploosh of gas into carb didn't result in anything different. Points are good and dwell set at 30. Timing was set at 5 BTDC just during cranking.

Is it wiring?? My jerry-rigged setup is as follows:
+ batt to starter
- batt to head bolt
+ on starter to + coil
- on coil to dist
Touch solenoid to + batt to turn over.
Alternator not invloved because I just want to see the dang engine run on its own for 10-15 seconds tops. :evil:
What am I missing to get the engine to "catch"?

Also: New Bosch Platinum plugs (old AC 43S didn't work either). Distributor confirmed correct orientation (not 180* off). Rotor and wires relatively new. Rotor rotates as it should. Cap and points good. Dwell at 30. Tried many diffo combo's of stuff, including Solenoid to + Coil.

Gang, I'm stumped.
:? :? :? :? :? :?

 

+ coil should be hooked to the battery. If hooked to + on starter or + on solenoid it will only get power when cranking. find TDC and set the dist at 0 degrees. retarding the timing will let it start easier. Check the timing order again and it should fire. Has it built any oil pressure yet? If not the lifters may have leaked down and not opening the valves far enough to get enough air in yet.

 

Hmmm, ok thanks. Going out to check now to see if that makes a differance.....

 

No luck; just a couple more violient explosions out the carb.

 

Not sure how to set the dist at 0 degrees?? I've confirmed that #1 cylinder at TDC results in the dist. rotor pointing at #1 wire, so that's fine I think.

Yes it has built up good oil pressure during cranking. WTF does it take for the thing to take over on its own??

 

I hope it's as easy as that. Since timing can only really be set at idle, I just did the best I could during cranking. Once I had the dist. rotated too far and that explosion out the carb caused the engine to stop cranking for a split second, then re-crank. I figgered that it was firing prematurely thus retarding the crank. I tried all kinds of dist. positions, nothing helped.

Keep 'em coming folks...I hope it's something silly and easy that I missed.

 

Sounds like you may have an intake or exhaust valve stuck open. I don't claim to know much about the v-6, but do you have the right dist, even or odd. timing order in correct rotation, couter, or clockwise.

 

How to check?? I know nothing about that stuff. The intake came from a known working engine, so maybe I can check the exhaust valve? Where is that? (prolly in the head, but not sure how to evaluate).

The dist came from the same working V6. For fun I even swapped in another 225 V6 dist, and no luck. Wires on the cap are positioned every other as was from the working V6.

I've read a bunch of archives here and tried many diffo combinations of stuff with no luck. I'm stumped! This thing should fire.

I do recall that the very first time I cranked her over that she ALMOST caught, but nothing remotely close since. WTF!

 

did it start after finding the rotor problem above?

 

fuel pump? Is there fuel in the carb?

 

Jim: it hasn't started at all period. Just cranks over and over draining the batt. :evil:

Scott: fuel pump pumps ok. Splooshes of gas in the carb and/or spritz of starter fluid only resulted in those explosions out the carb. Surely that would have been an effective substitute for a few seconds of fire, no?

IMO everything appears to be in order. Man I'm really scratching my head here. Maybe I should have blind faith and just install the engine in the '64 and try again when I get the formal wiring established??? I can't believe the thing won't run for even a few seconds by rigging it. :evil:

 

long reply coming

 

OK. (bracing for impact. )

 

back to basics; bear with me
as you look at engine from drivers side, #1 on dist should be about 8 or 9 o'clock poisition, closest to fan blades
firing order from there clockwise 1-6-5-4-3-2; check your wires
pull plugs, check compression; if you don't have a gauge, finger over hole works; good compression will blow your finger off (the hole)
bad compression, finger no blow off hole; stuck valve, bad timing chain, etc
bring cylinder #1 up to compression stroke, then align marks for TDC
install dist; rotor should be pointing to #1 in the 8 or 9 o'clock position; if not, pull dist and align till it does
make sure points are opening properly; make sure condenser lead is not shorted out; make sure rotor is turning, cap and rotor are okay
recheck firing order and plug wires
backfiring that you are having suggests timing problem
ballast resistor? 12volts at coil?
while cranking move dist slowly either direction till running; then readjust for best idle
best this dufus could do for now
I know you have checked all this already, take a step back, breathe deeply,
double check
hth

 

Thanks Jim, a few things on that list I can double-check tomorrow.
Compresson is good because while holding spark plug on top of block to verify spark, the air pressure blew debris into my face (wasn't expecting it). How to check for stuck valve?? Which valves?? Would a stuck valve explain why it doesn't fire up?

Rotor points to #1 cylinder when at TDC, and remaining wires are in the right place. There are 2 condensors, one externally mounted on top of coil and one next to the points. These were working fine when I pulled them off a working V6.

I had tried to utilize a ballast resistor originally but when that didn't work I gave up on it.

Thanks for the tips. I'm sure the culprit has to be something that I think is ok, but I've already backed up and gone thru the basics ad nauseum. I'm going out of my mind already.

 

if you have a way to put compressed air into each cylinder at TDC (for each cylinder)
you could hear air escaping
thru carb, intake valve
out exhaust pipe, ex valve
but a basic compression test will cover this also
you want all cylinders 110-120psi
if you have one or two at say 50-75 psi, "Houston, you have a problem"

 

I don't have a compression checker. Do the finger thingey??

 

yes, its just a quick way
even if you had a cyl with low compression, it should still start
make sure your #1 is in that 8-9 o'clock position, and the rotor points there