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Steering Conversion On My '67

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by hman442, May 26, 2020.

  1. May 26, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    91032344_R_514fac03-2723-4067-bd16-b13c00208d87.jpg 09077lg-03-01.jpg Okay, I decided to go with the Herms plate and a manual reverse rotation box. I decided that this would be the way to go, as I would need to redo the mounting on my PTO winch to fit a Saginaw, and I like the idea of the box not being out front. I'm trying to get all the fitting & mods lined out before I remove the body & overhaul the frame, that way all the drilling, welding, etc. will be done. I got a box today, mounted it to the plate & slid it in place. I put on the rear dump manifold off of a 77 Skylark. The manifold is in the way of the steering shaft - as most of you probably already know. I can add a third U-Joint, with the bearing at the intersection of the frame rail and motor mount tower & it will work fine. Of course, the PTO driveshaft is in the way. I can move it over towards the oil pan a bit, and up, to clear the rotating pitman arm. When I move it up, the shaft hits the "radiator" crossmember. To correct that, I need to lower the winch about 3/4", which looks pretty easy & will not require chopping up the mount. It's amazing how one thing leads to another. Sorry for no pictures, I'm still working on that, but spent the da in the shop, instead of on the computer.
    Looking at pictures, it looks like a box from a '67 or so Mustang would fit nice. The input shaft and housing would be up on top of the frame rail instead of inboard, which would make the steering shaft line up without the exhaust manifold interfering. It looks like a reverse rotation box. I'm assuming that it won't work for some reason that I haven't thought of yet, or someone would have done it, but I can't find any info anywhere where it was tried. Any thoughts on this ? What am I missing ? 09077lg-03-01.jpg
     
  2. May 26, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    Okay, I managed to resize and post a pic. Is an actual Jeepster manifold shape more compatible ? In the post above, you can see how the Mustang box would sit better ?
     

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  3. May 26, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
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    Check the Lock to lock turn on the steering gear/box. Per my research you want 4 plus
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  4. May 26, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    Yes, Definitely want to be able to turn it ! Like I say, looking at the pictures of the box, it looks like a home run, but ?............
     
  5. May 26, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    Looks like the "low performance" Mustang used a 19.9-1, which equates to 4 5/8 turns, now I just need to find one to lay up there and see if it's really an option or not.
     
  6. May 26, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    Might the taller gear cause even more radiator clearance woes? My lower hose was a serious problem.

    I’m going to end up converting to a late CJ grill to clear out the whole area.
     
  7. May 26, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Member 2020 Sponsor

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    The box looks small in the picture. Will it take abuse of large tire and off road bumping
     
  8. May 26, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    That box looks identical to mine. Ford Ranger style.
     
  9. May 26, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    It doesn't look real big - could be an issue. The Mustang weighed 2800 lb, but as you say, wasn't used as hard.
     
  10. May 26, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    It could, I'll just have to get a hold of one & set it in place & see
     
  11. May 26, 2020
    Jrobz23

    Jrobz23 Member

    Northern, WI
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    Yeah I can def see more vertical space requirements being an issue if you wanna keep the stock grill in tact.

    Isn’t the V6 grill cowl 1” longer?
     
  12. Jun 10, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    So, I'm having trouble getting this Mustang steering box out of my head. It fits really nice. It needs no plate, just tubes through the frame for the bolts, no conflict getting the steering shaft to the column, miles away from the radiator, the fuel pump & the exhaust. Borgeson makes a power steering box with 1 1/8" sector shaft & bigger, "more robust" gears in it, but it fits the same and is not much larger. The only potential issue is the way the pitman arm goes under the frame in a full left turn. The stock pitman is a "raised arm" so it's really close. If I got a straight or perhaps 1" dropped, there would be no conflict with the frame, but the center of the pitman arm swings to where the rubber block fits. I would build a gusseted plate on the bottom/outside of the frame for the rubber block. I like this box, as I don't have to have a three joint steering shaft, or buy $500.00 block hugger headers to eliminate the three joint shaft, and then have to deal with headers, even though the Novaks sound like high quality parts. I was initially going to install a manual reverse rotation box on the Herms plate, which fits good except for the steering shaft, but was thinking I should leave the option of going to power down the road. I would then need to modify the Herms plate, and I took a Ranger reverse rotation power box home and mocked it up - it fits, after removing the fuel pump - but looks like I could raise the engine & refit the pump & it would clear, but never be a candidate fior an easy "field repair", and is also only about 3/4" from the radiator, so it would hit during flex. I could raise the radiator 1/2" or so, but the dang Mustang box fits so nice ? The Borgeson Power box is not cheap, it's $550, but seems worth it as it eliminates so many other potential headaches. My #1 question is, does anyone think there would be much of an issue with the pitman arm under the frame ? My blocks are about 5" from the axle, and don't look like they have ever touched. I measured the other side and for the axle to be on the rubber the tire would be almost touching the fender, and I don't recall my tires ever getting close to the fender in the past. Is there anything else I'm missing ?
     

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    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  13. Jun 10, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    Just to throw another option out there, many years ago I used a Scout ll power box in a CJ5. It is similar in shape to the Ford boxes and mounts in a somilar manner. The biggest issue is they are getting hard to find and expensive.
    -Donny
     
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  14. Jun 10, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    I think with the Scout II box, the steering shaft will still be conflicting with the exhaust manifold. Aside from that, yes, it looks very similar to the Ford reverse rotation.
     
  15. Jun 10, 2020
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

    Show low az
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    Following as im having the same issue. Lookong into scout 2. Its like 700 bucks woth no core in az. Got the name of the outfit if your interested
     
  16. Jun 10, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs 2019 Sponsor

    At the foot of...
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    For those not familiar with the Scout II steering gear, this is what one looks like. This is mocked up on my sons Willys pickup.
    20200610_202154.jpg

    20200610_202057.jpg
    These are getting difficult to find, I searched CL & Marketplace for 9 months before I found this one, 100 miles away!
     
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  17. Jun 10, 2020
    Cowboyjeeper

    Cowboyjeeper Member

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    That really is a neat set up
     
  18. Jun 11, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    The Mustang box looks like a great fit. If you can find a flat pitman arm and extend the bumpstop to make sure the axle never hits the box, it looks like a winner. It does seem like it sits further back than some of the other boxes. You may need to verify the drag link isn't going to interfere with the tie rod or the diff cover through it's full travel and through full suspension travel.
     
  19. Jun 11, 2020
    Mountain Goat

    Mountain Goat New Member

    Rocklin, ca
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    That box looks really good i like how far back you were able to get it i have a saginaw box in the stock location i'm always worried about smashing the cap against a rock. I have went through a few iterations of steerings setups setting up my high steer the only advice i would have after learning the hard way is hook everything up and cycle the suspension to full droop and also check the bump stop locations in compression to make sure to make sure nothing is binding up.
     
  20. Jun 11, 2020
    hman442

    hman442 New Member 2020 Sponsor

    Central Oregon
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    I did the "broomstick" check of the drag link & tie rod & it looks good, even without going to high steer. It gets pretty close to the upper part of the cover in right turn/right side compress, but looks like I still have 3/4" or so.
     
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