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Ring And Pinion With Mismatched Numbers

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by johnsotd, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Apr 26, 2017
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict Sponsor

    Minden, Nevada
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    I'm not seeing much of a pattern, but .003 is too tight for backlash. Until you have backlash set to .006 - .010 the pattern is useless.
     
  2. Apr 26, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Yeah I couldn't see enough to really tell what I'm looking at but Posimoto is right on about the backlash.
    The way to gain backlash is by moving the ring over away from pinion about .004 or .005".
    So next question... Just how tight are the differential bearings inside the carrier ?
     
  3. Apr 27, 2017
    johnsotd

    johnsotd Member

    Senatobia, MS
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    I'll check everything again tomorrow. I'll try to get better photos.
    I don't understand the question about how tight the carrier bearings are.
    Thanks
     
  4. Apr 27, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    I'm wondering if the tension on differential (bearing preload) seems about right.
    If the differential easily or loosely slips in and out of place ...
    then a few more carrier shims may only be required on the right side. (ring gear side)
    That would provide increase backlash.
    But it's much more likely you will also need to subtract shims from the left side (open side).

    Got that ?
     
  5. Apr 27, 2017
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    In regard to the matching of the 2 gears, I was only considering the potential differences in wear patterns on 2 used gears that came from different partners, originally. In my simple mind, I'm thinking it would be like using a used bearing from one set and a used race from another set. Sorry if I'm digressing.

    What numbers would match to make them a "matched set?" Im not real familiar with this stuff.
     
  6. Apr 27, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Fix it once...
    Fix it right....
    I don't like having to do stuff over again.

    Wheelie, there are factory Dana numbers stamped into the ring gear and pinion gear, much like the tooth count and date of manufacture.
    From those numbers, usually five digits, you can determine of they are " factory matched" or not. FYI, the five digits are not the same numbers ie., 12345, 12345. They could be 19570 and 19230 as an example.
     
  7. Apr 27, 2017
    johnsotd

    johnsotd Member

    Senatobia, MS
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    Second attempt

    .[​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Apr 28, 2017
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Pattern looks great and I take it the backlash is .009.
    Run it as is if pinion preload and carrier bearing tension is in spec.
     
  9. Apr 28, 2017
    johnsotd

    johnsotd Member

    Senatobia, MS
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    Carrier installed with a little dead blow hammer persuasion.
    Pinion preload is 10"# as best I can tell with my little torque wrench.
    I have a new front bearing that I will use on final assembly.
    Thanks to everyone for all of your help. Differential work is not easy.
     
  10. Apr 28, 2017
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict Sponsor

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    One thing I have noticed is that when I use setup bearings, those will only get you close. Backlash usually will get a tighter with the new bearing. In full disclosure I made my setup bearing from ones that had been run as much as 10k miles so that may be the explanation. I setup the preload and then the backlash. Once the carrier fits in snug and it sounds like it does if you need a deadblow hammer to get it in, I move shims from one side to the other to either increase or decrease backlash as you already have your overall shim pack for your preload. Hopefully you have a nice digital caliper or micrometer. I write down the shim pack thicknesses so if you damage a shim or things get mixed up you can refer to the total thickness of the shim and re-make it.

    Hope this isn't too confusing the way I've stated it. I just finished setting up a 30 spl offset 44 with new ring and pinion. I have done a half dozen or so case swaps but this is only my second setup where I had to dial in the pinion. Took a while. Patience is your friend.
     
  11. Apr 28, 2017
    johnsotd

    johnsotd Member

    Senatobia, MS
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    The new bearing will be the front pinion bearing. I dinged the original and instead of taking a chance I decided to replace it. Might make my pinion preload a little higher but that won't be hard to adjust if I have to.
    Thanks for all the help.
     
  12. May 1, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Wheelie, an example from the document I have shows the Jeep part number for factory Dana new ring and pinion gear sets.

    Jeep P/N 801925 = 16420 ring gear number and 18395 for the pinion shaft number.
    This only applies to factory Dana new gear sets.
    If you tore an axle down, you could identify these components by any of the numbers given above.
    Of course on a used axle, there' s no guarantee that the 16420 ring gear is 100% original to the 18395 pinion you find it with.
    Someone could have blown an axle, obtained another axle assembly, and just swapped out the bad ring gear or pinion shaft.
    These ID numbers would be the same as any Dana factory replacements.
    Just a long winded example and FYI.
     
  13. May 1, 2017
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Thank you. Now I know what more of the numbers mean. I guess with the right books, you can decipher anything. Ole' Granville never went into that much detail. :)
     

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