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Manual Saginaw Steering Questions

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by jeepstar, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Aug 8, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    Moderators~move if you see fit..


    Came back from the father in laws for some more parts for the 62 cj5.
    Manual saginaw steering box, from an 80 cj5, steering column from a 79 cj5. Where do i get the connecting shaft? Is it called an intermediate shaft?
    Anything i can provide to help the slueths, let me know! 20180808_163344.jpg
     
  2. Aug 8, 2018
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Chief Cook and Bottlewasher Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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    You need a steering shaft. If you want to go power steering, plan on that first, since the manual and power boxes have different spline counts. You can pick up a flaming river shaft or make your own from a mix of OEM parts and D-shaft with ends from flaming river. There's another company, but I don't recall the name off the top of my head.

    Be sure to carefully count the splines at each end. IIRC, manual saginaw boxes are usually 32 splines with power boxes having 36.
     
    heavychevy likes this.
  3. Aug 8, 2018
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Are you thinking of Borgeson?
     
  4. Aug 8, 2018
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Chief Cook and Bottlewasher Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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    Yep.

    When I converted mine, I think I used the top half of an XJ steering shaft mated to a borgeson/flaming river lower double D shaft and a custom end.
     
    heavychevy likes this.
  5. Aug 8, 2018
    michigan_pinstripes

    michigan_pinstripes I'm not lost, I'm wandering

    Clarkston MI...
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    fortunately, I've spent alot of time on this recently. Your manual gear should read p/n 5679142 on top as it is the most common 1960's - 1980's. Spline is considered "3/4 - 30" but is actually smaller (.730 irrc). Spline count is 31 I think not 30. There are endless sizes of "flaming river style" or "Borgeson"adapters on ebay to make one your self. Your steering column side appears to be bigger -- .80 or 1" possibly?

    However, you already have somewhat matching 79-80 stuff, I would find the stock intermediate shaft and cut/shorten/weld if needed to make it fit. I'm guessing that clamp is from a rag-joint. Replacements rags are plentiful but spline counts can be SUPER confusing. Rock Auto rags are inexpensive at $16 or so but sell odd count splines like "26 spline" (no such thing really exists). That is actually a "30" spline less the flat slide (if your gear has that). So a "31 spline is actually too big (really a 36).

    A quick search on ebay there is a stock aftermarket intermediate for $95 new -- alot less hassle and think time. I dont think it requires a rag joint but someone else with more experience here may help.

    I am adapting a CJ2A column shaft to a "modern" manual gear box. Rag joint w/ 3/4 spline on gear side, 3/4 "DD" shaft and 3/4 spline at steering shaft. Sounds simple but takes a little more planning (and safety/durability considerations). I trying an OEM Astro van collapsible steering shaft from the bone yard ($11). Very easy to pick if someone else has already ripped off the front end. From there I will be adapting as it isnt a straight bolt on (1" DD on one side).

    I can use a rag joint and weld up a solution pretty quick but I am first trying to be creative (until possibly surrendering)

    Hope this helps, i'm just learning all this myself too! Get a Harbor freight digital measuring caliper -- VERY useful on this stuff!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  6. Aug 8, 2018
    '74Renegade

    '74Renegade Active Member 2019 Sponsor

    Fair Oaks, CA
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    I just did this, works awesome. I used a u joint from Classic Performance, looks exactly like Flaming River but less $$.
     
  7. Aug 8, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    Pics?
     
  8. Aug 8, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

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    If you can find the upper column from a '72 - '75 intermediate Cj, or Postal Jeep, you won't have to hack a big cutout in your dashboard. That, and the center shaft leading to the steering box for the same intermediate will make it nearly a bolt-in swap.
    -Donny
     
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  9. Aug 8, 2018
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    For what it's worth I personally would not even consider a Manual conversion........while your just a hop, skip and a jump away from power.......Just my opinion!
     
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  10. Aug 9, 2018
    '74Renegade

    '74Renegade Active Member 2019 Sponsor

    Fair Oaks, CA
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    I'll see what I can do, might not show real well with the fender on. Basically a stock intermediate column to the stock power steering box. I just replaced the old spear style steering shaft with a 99-01 xj telescoping steering shaft: top half is a tweak away with a jewelers file to fit the column end....lower half is a 3/4DD shaft with the correct splined u joint.

    With the correct splined box the xj shaft is just about the right length for the earlys, only about an inch short of working on an intermediate, if the box end was the same, which it wasn't.
     
  11. Aug 9, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

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    I know. This seems simple in concept, but its pretty advanced for me. Baby steps. Enjoy the manual upgrade for a season, gather my thoughts and parts, go hydraulic steering then.
     
    heavychevy likes this.
  12. Aug 9, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    Excellent advice and tip. Unfortunately what rust hasn't claimed over the years, cash for clunkers did years back. Not many old cars and trucks and jeeps in fields anymore, even in the northern part of the state. Scrap prices went through the roof. Most scrap yards dont keep anything over 10 years old now. Its getting harder and harder to source used jeep parts from the 70s
     
  13. Aug 9, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

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    upload_2018-8-9_9-42-29.png

    like this one? its 800 bucks for the whole pile of parts, located WAAAAAAYYYY up in the UP, like a 10 hour drive from me.
     
  14. Aug 9, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Eppur si muove. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Earlier postals have a column that looks like the Intermediate column. Pretty sure that's much later than what you want. JMO - that price is the seller's fantasy. I would not pay $800 for amy postal, esp. without an engine. Not much there that's useful to you. You could make the column work but the RHD steering gear is worthless. If it was one of the few that had the Audi engine, it might be interesting for the transmission. Supposedly it's a TF727 that bolts up to a VW diesel engine.
     
  15. Aug 9, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Right hand drive doesn't matter, correct?
     
  16. Aug 9, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Eppur si muove. 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Matters for the steering gear. Completely different. I presume the postal columns are the same, LHD or RHD. Not many postals out there that aren't RHD!
     
  17. Aug 9, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Good to know.
     
  18. Aug 9, 2018
    Muzikp

    Muzikp Active Member 2020 Sponsor

    Sacramento Ca.
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    Does your Jeep still have the Ross steering?

    I would strongly encourage you to not do it twice, power steering is easy to do (not sure about hydraulic tho). If you do manual saginaw conversion now, make the steering gear mount on the frame, sort out your steering shaft/column, you will have to do it all (or most of it) again when you go to power steering. The steering shaft won't be the right length or spline count at a minimum. The power steering gear may not work on the mount you make for the manual gear.

    I got super lucky and my power steering gear bolted right to my mount for the manual gear (I was prepared to cut it off and start over). I had to redo the steering shaft since the power steering gear is longer and the splines didn't match. Just my $.02
     
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  19. Aug 9, 2018
    Don X

    Don X President for Life Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

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    I went with a manual saggy and haven't had any problems. I was leery of going power with an fhead.
     
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  20. Aug 9, 2018
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

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    Both do. Im doing manual steering because its parts on hand. Was going to do power once ive wrapped my head around the level of difficulty. Sometimes it's nice to have a practice Jeep.
     
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