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Hydraulic Clutch Trouble

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by 3b a runnin, May 1, 2020.

  1. May 19, 2020
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Member 2019 Sponsor

    virginia
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    777
    After adjusting the clutch (slave) pushrod, I can get it to release, after pumping the pedal several times. The last 1/3 of pedal travel is very hard to push.
     
  2. May 19, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    747
    Your right at 2:1. 1" of travel at the slave won't get it. Assuming everything correct you need a little better than a half inch with a GM clutch. Adjusted for to bearing air gap you'll need 5/8-3/4" travel at the clutch. How is your slave setup? Just a little bit of play or misalignment can tolerance stack. Also sounds like you still are not fully bled.
    The Novak Guide to Clutches, Linkages & Bellhousings for JeepĀ® Conversions
     
  3. May 19, 2020
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe pusher

    Maryland
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    747
    Pedal ratio problem? Reread your thread. There may be an issue with Novak's master and your pedsl assembly setup.
     
  4. May 19, 2020
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Member 2019 Sponsor

    virginia
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    777
    I haven't attempted to measure pedal travel ratio, but i have 1 1/4 in of travel at the master cyl pushrod. I'm now using a 7/8 Wilwood clutch cylinder, and the Novak 3/4 slave and mount. The firewall actually flexes with the last 1/3 of pedal travel. I did add about a 12in sq piece of 1/8 sheet to reinforce the clutch/brake master cylinders. The only way I can get the clutch to release is to make the most of the pedal travel.
    Thanks for your help
     
  5. May 21, 2020
    BadGoat

    BadGoat How High Can You Climb?

    St Croix, USVI
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    237
    Hydraulic clutch systems can be a bear to bleed. I ended up un-mounting my master cylinder from the firewall, holding it straight above the slave cylinder at an angle, and pushing the piston in by hand while my buddy operated the bleeder valve on the slave. I had to tilt the master at about a 45 degree angle, just enough to take the high point out of the line, but not leave the fluid pickup dry. Then I could reinstall the master cylinder to the firewall and hook the pedal back up.

    Mike
     
    47v6 likes this.
  6. May 25, 2020
    Kg6sof

    Kg6sof New Member

    Upland, Ca
    Joined:
    May 16, 2020
    Messages:
    10
    Currently working hydraulic clutch setup for my 68 cj. I used the willwood pull slave and a 3/4in master as recommended and dont get full travel on the slave and not getting full release on clutch. Just ordered a willwood 1in master hopefully that will do the job.
    One trick to do when bleeding a master or brakes is run some silicone airline from a fishtank from the bleeder into a jar of brake fluid, I use a 20oz water bottle with hose through a hole in lid and pin hole in lid for venting. Fill the bottle about 1in full of fluid and keep the end of the line under the fluid level, this will stop the chance of air getting back in and also let you watch for air leaving system. I do all my bleeds this way without need for a helper
     
  7. May 25, 2020
    jackdog

    jackdog Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Finger Lakes NY
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    305
    Movement of 1-1 1/4" should be enough to release the clutch. It only takes about 1/2" at the other end of clutch fork to release the clutch disc. I just went thru all this and its fresh in my mind. I had to use a longer pivot stud and longer TO bearing. I also had a problem with a tight pilot bushing.
     
  8. May 25, 2020
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Member 2019 Sponsor

    virginia
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    777
    Been workin on this some over the weekend. I have had the master/slave combo off the jeep several times. Trying to find the right position to get all the air out of the system. I clamped the piston in the slave, in the retracted position, so it couldn't move. Hoping the air would have to be trapped in the small area at the hose/bleeder end. I tried different positions, but it is no better
    !@#$$%^%&^&* I still have to pump the clutch 2-3 times to get a full release. WHAT THE HELL??
     
  9. May 25, 2020
    45es

    45es Member 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    721
    My hydraulic clutch is a GM factor setup. The only method that I have been able to bleed all the air from my hydraulic clutch is as follows.

    I disconnect the slave cylinder from it's mount. I hold the slave cylinder so that the bleeder valve is at the cylinders high point. I then cracking open the bleeder and push the clutch rod in and then close bleeder valve. The cylinder's internal return spring cycles the cylinder back to it's starting position and draws fluid from the master cylinder into the slave cylinder. I repeat this until all of the air has been removed. Effectively, I'm using the slave cylinder as a pump to fill the system with fluid and remove all of the air.
     
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  10. May 26, 2020
    fhoehle

    fhoehle Sponsor

    Harford Township, PA
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
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    I had a wilwood and also a Speedway motors pull type slave. Both failed under daily use in a short time and bleeding was a pita. I know people knock it, but I installed a cable setup and I have never had an issue since. I have a spare cable but I have never used it. We also had an AMC Eagle, iron duke, with hydraulic clutch that fought us tooth and nail in the bleeding department, and everywhere else. I am so happy that car is sold.
     
  11. May 26, 2020
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member

    exploring the...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
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    3,342
    I usually push the slave all the way in after pumping the pedal. Do this a few times as the slave holds a little more fluid than the line it should force the air up and out.
     
  12. May 26, 2020
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    4,643
    Manual manipulation of the slave with the hose hooked up to bleed is how I was taught to bleed them. Its the only way I've been successful.... Tried to cut corners once and got much of the same issues your talking about. The slave moved 'without load' fine. Hook it up and just didn't seem to pull enough. Removed it (it was inside a steel tube as part of the mounting) and did the manual manipulation for bleeding - damn thing has worked fine since.
     
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  13. May 26, 2020
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Member 2019 Sponsor

    virginia
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    Jan 11, 2015
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    I'll try that
     

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