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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Oct 25, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    not yet....some of my frustration is bigger picture life stuff that seeps its way into what are supposed to be fun things. One hassle has been a place to keep the wagon...plan A has sort of fallen through so plan B is to move the cj to my father's garage that is on the other side of denver. I need to get the cj cleaned up, top on and ready for winter, speedo needs fixed, etc and move it over there so I can keep the wagon in my garage spot and my wife can have her garage spot back. I am 2 weeks past the agreed upon time that she would get her spot back and yes she did have to clean snow off her car on thurs morning. My hope is to get the wagon running next week so I can move it to the street and give her back the spot. Then spend a week getting the cj ready to move across town and unfortunately I won't be able to drive it much over the winter. And I can then see if I can survive my job for a while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
    Twin2 likes this.
  2. Oct 25, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Enjoying the weekend at Highline lake state park. Beautiful fall weather and superb mountain biking, so really things are good....

    [​IMG]
     
    dozerjim, colojeepguy, 47v6 and 2 others like this.
  3. Oct 25, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    Now that's just downright pretty!
     
  4. Oct 28, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Well we've confirmed I am an idiot, but at least I got a 2 bolt adapter to fit on the oil bypass....:rolleyes:...time to get the oil pan tightened up and the starter back on...progress...

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Oct 28, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    You figured it out, so not idiot...Keep going..
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  6. Oct 28, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Everything is fitting back with proper clearance etc....starter will be for tomorrow and then oil pressure line.
    [​IMG]
     
    ITLKSEZ and 47v6 like this.
  7. Oct 29, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    Test for leaks with the new adapters before you need to drive it.
     
  8. Oct 29, 2019
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Châtillon en...
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    I wait to see this marvellous machine on the roads...
     
  9. Oct 31, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    So buttoned everything back up with new point-less Accel distributor (solid sate module controlled)....No spark as best as I can tell. I tried to install the new distributor exactly as the old points one came out - and the cap has lots of room to rotate so I should be able to get the timing set, and have checked plug wire terminals and routing a number of times....Number1 on the cap is essentially straight forward - maybe slightly toward passenger. I am working solo, so its hard to crank the engine and be under the hood, but I hooked up the timing light just to see if I am getting any spark - and No flash. Here is a pic of the set-up:
    [​IMG]

    The green wire from firewall is from the ignition switch (it went to the resistor before - no resistor with this set-up according to directions) and goes to coil (+). There was no start-up resistor bypass directly to the coil before - so I know that would not have been ideal, so maybe the issue is here. The red wire goes from coil (+) to the B terminal on the accel module (per instructions). The green wire goes from coil (-) to C terminal on module. The other module terminals go to the the module pick-up under the cap - they have different size terminals and thus cannot get mixed up. Otherwise, everything else is related to the high V wires - I've tried to ensure they fit the cap terminals properly....I am not 100% certain I have the distributor installed correctly in terms on gear tooth - so I will go through and manually turn the engine until I am at TDC on compression stroke for #1 and check rotor position - but it ain't going to matter if I don't have spark. Is there some way I can use a multi-meter to check if I am getting current from the coil to the distributor, and then getting it out of the cap?

    EDIT - think the missing resistor bypass wire from starter soleniod may the issue....from the ol intraweb of knowledge....
    The original 12 volt override wire from the starter solenoid “R” terminal to the ignition coil must be retained and must be doubled up with the new 12 volt ignition feed before the wires are plugged into the HEI power terminal. The reason this is necessary is that the ignition switch is mutually exclusive in the crank and run positions. This means that there is no power on the “RUN” circuit when the ignition switch is in the “CRANK” mode. Subsequently, without the lead wire from the starter solenoid “R” terminal, the car won’t start.

    But....my ingition switch is has been replaced with something (arghhh...I really am wishing I bought one that was more original)....maybe it one like this....how do I know what type of ignition switch I have.....
    An alternative solution involves changing the ignition switch to one that supplies 12 volts on the “RUN” circuit when the ignition is in “CRANK” mode. With this type of ignition switch, a 12 volt override wire from the starter is not necessary. Subsequently, if your starter had an “R” terminal and you changed the ignition switch as described here, the original 12 volt override wire could be eliminated.

    Thinking of adding the 12V wire from R to coil+ to see if that helps....would it hurt to have it there if not needed?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  10. Nov 1, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    ok I could use some help...I am out of ideas other than to put the old points distributor back in....I have tested to see I am getting 12 V to coil(+) both under run and crank conditions. I have manually triggered the coil by grounding the coil (-) and seem to get a spike in the high V coil output...The coil was working before, so it should be fine now I would think. I manually turned the engine to #1 TDC and set the dist so the rotor points to #1. I am trying to check if I am getting spark to the plugs, but it doesn't appear so...My induction timing light doesn't indicate any spark, and then I pulled a plug and grounded to engine block and am getting very weak spark. I changed the module out on the HEI unit to make sure that wasn't the problem....
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  11. Nov 2, 2019
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I don't know if this helps, but at TDC, the rotor should point straight to #1 (front driver's side), and the corresponding dist terminal should be the same. In the above posts, it sounds like you have things pointing straight ahead.
    You also have to confirm the TDC is on compession stroke, or you could be out 180 degrees.
    Also, is this a brand new Accel distributor? I know I have at least 3 Mallory and 1 Accel distributors that look nearly new, and every one of them are dead.
    It might not be a bad idea to drop the original points distributor back in just to verify thats the problem.
    Yes, watch closely for oil leaks on the filter adapter on first start-up!
    -Donny
     
  12. Nov 2, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    After I got a second set of hands to help I was able to confirm TDC on #1 compression stroke, but the rotor doesn't point to the front driver side - its pointing front passenger side - about 90degrees from where I think it should point....just to ensure I wasn't totally off my rocker, I turned the crank 1 additional full rotation to what I believe to be TDC#1 on the exhaust stroke, and the rotor points to the rear driver side....Back to compression stroke TDC#1 that points hard passenger front, on the accel distributor cap, its easy to rotate the distributor housing such that its pointing at #1 terminal on the cap (and all others follow in proper sequence). Don't know if that really matters, but it seems to me as long as the rotor and #1 terminal on the cap are in agreement, then it should work. Of course, it isn't....

    No...it was passed along to me from a member here...was running when removed. Duffer sent me two complete distributors...one of them has an issue with the breaker plate/mechanical advance but is good for some extra parts and an extra module etc...they have been sitting on the shelf for a while when he went EFI.

    I think what I understand its I am just not getting ANY spark...and I don't mean the spark timing is off, I mean there is just no spark at the plugs....My thoughts were/are
    1) the module isn't triggering the coil properly (but I changed modules to test - but no guarantee either are good)
    2) the coil is not working (although it was working 3 weeks ago with points - I had some sort of ignition concerns as it had issues with hot starts) - my FLAPS allowed to me to pick-up a new coil that I can return if needed, so will test that out this PM.
    3) Plugs look ok - they are looking a better color than before the carb rebuild so the attempt to clean it up and lean it out seem to be working somewhat
    4) I check resistance in the plug wires - all very good, although the wires do look like the've been sitting around for a long time and the rubber casing/outer insulation is a bit deteriorated.

    Due to all the cranking and testing, my batteries (pulled the cj battery to use as well) are on the charger...getting time try again....
     
  13. Nov 2, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    FWIW - here is where the rotor is pointing when at TDC#1: about 2oclock (front passenger)
    [​IMG]

    Tried the new coil - nothing. My timing light suggests I am not getting any spark on any plug wire or even from the coil output. Going to pull the distributor and see if something in side the distributor is off.....doesn't seem like the coil is getting triggered, but I don't really know how to test that for sure....
     
  14. Nov 2, 2019
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    At the foot of...
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    Yes as long as you are at TDC on the compression stroke and the rotor lines up it should run.
    I'm not sure what you've got going on there....I think I'd try Donnys advice and drop the points dist back in and see what happens.
     
  15. Nov 2, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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    Ignition module
     
  16. Nov 2, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Put the old 55 style points distributor back in...got spark back, but cant get it to fire...guessing I am out time. The two distributor caps are different, and its hard to transfer the location of #1 from one to the other (doesn't seem like it should be, but it is....). ooo, wife just got home, she can help me find TDC again....
     
  17. Nov 2, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Its running again! Its back on the 55 style points distributor, but I think it helps me know that its not something major I did wrong, but rather an issue with the magnetic distributor trigger or module. This distributor needs the vac can replaced....and Pertronix does make a breakerless trigger specific to this early distributor...so maybe that is an option. I am worried the various HEI and other aftermarket breakerless distributors will be too big to fit in against the firewall. Anyway....at least its running and I can drive it around and then check for leaks along the oil adapter and pan gasket etc, and still trying to test the cooling system.

    Is there any way to test old electronic distributors/modules? I haven't given up the accel distributor - its the right size...I can buy brand new module for $40, but I don't want to waste the $40 if something else in there is bad (there is not much else except the magnetic pick-up). I swapped the module from one old used one to another old used one, and I swapped the magnetic pick-up as well....Seems hard to believe all of it went bad.... I would like to find a way to test it....
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  18. Nov 2, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    Put the distributor gently in a vise and use a drill to spin the shaft. Hook it up to a spare coil that is hooked up to one spark plug that is grounded to the vice... if the one plug fires you can mark the trigger side as good and focus on the cap, rotor, and installation.
    If it does not fire use a test light on the coil negative terminal and see if it flashes.
     
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  19. Nov 2, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    I like this idea....I assume i need 12V going to the coil (from a battery in my case)?
     
  20. Nov 2, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    spoke too soon...drove it around the neighborhood block and it didn't make it home...just died and wouldn't restart....drug it the 1/2 mile home on a strap.
     

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