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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Apr 7, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs 2019 Sponsor

    At the foot of...
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    I have one that you're welcome to borrow if you want to drive to CS....
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  2. Apr 8, 2020
    Dave Deyton

    Dave Deyton Member

    Fuquay-Varina, NC
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    With tools, I consider that price part of the cost as an investment. Buy your tools once and use them for a life time.
    Just look at all the new skills you are learning. Got to get up to Colorado when I retire in about 6 years and then I can get a ride it that cool wagon and enjoy those mountain views.

    Keep at it, looking forward to getting back on my Jeep projects, just moving stuff out of the way.
    Can't tell you how many times I have used that hub puller, brakes, axle seals, etc...
    Plus it looks cool hanging on the wall.




    Dave
     
    Fireball likes this.
  3. Apr 11, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Rear hubs off! That is always a good thing....Used the OTC puller, got it on all nice a square, hit as hard as my impact hammer would take it....then applied heat from a bottle torch around the hub and repeated. The right rear came off just as I was switching and setting down tools and had my ear pretty darn close to it when it 'popped' - good gunshot! I literally had just finished a heat cycle and was about to try the sledge method but it released...didn't need the sledge for either side so I guess I got off lucky! Probably helped this vehicle was sort of 'running & driving' and stored inside opposed to just sitting out for years. As we all know, but sometimes hope to avoid, doing a brake rebuild is necessary from the start on these old vehicles almost without question...Probably going to replace the shoes as well as two of the three sets I've inspected have issues from either incorrect adjustment (front shoe is very worn or very tapered, uneven wear from one end to the other, rear shoe looks barely worn), as well as they all were installed backwards, with the short shoe forward - possibly increasing wear on that shoe more as well. Here is the RR - needs some cleaning, and a side bonus might be getting the parking brake more functional...
    [​IMG]
     
    Muzikp likes this.
  4. Apr 11, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    short shoe is forward
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Apr 11, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Hey Ron...we just went through this on another thread...but the diagram you posted is for the self adjusting brakes...these old wagner manual adjusting brakes have the long shoe forward....here is the thread:
    11" Wagner Brakes
     
    Glenn likes this.
  6. Apr 11, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    I don't doubt . what's in a FSM
    but I was doing brakes in early 60's
    and that's what I was taught
    now you want to see something different
    how's about two wheel cylinders on each wheel . one for each shoe
     
    Glenn likes this.
  7. Apr 11, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I'm sure we all do, or have done the same. Learn from someone and continue on because there's no reason to question it. I wonder if it really makes much of a difference with this type of brakes as to which shoe is in front.
     
  8. Apr 11, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    I have several British sports cars that have 2 wheel cylinders per drum; double-leading shoe brakes! Jaguar did this until they adopted disc brakes in the mid '50s. Brit bikes also used double-leading shoe brakes with two cam levers conncted by a linkage rod. They were more powerful than most early disc brakes.
    By the way, my Tux uses the long shoe toward the front, but they had different 10" brakes, later shared with Jeepster Commandos.
    -Donny
     
  9. Apr 12, 2020
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power 2019 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    The pre disc Benz's also used that arrangement.
     
  10. Apr 12, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Also 40's/50's Chrysler products.
     
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  11. Apr 12, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    When reassembling the rear hubs onto to tapered axle, should I polish the axle shaft with emery cloth and or antiseize on it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
  12. Apr 12, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Polishing the axle shaft and inside of the hub is good. I think the consensus would be no anti-seize but I'd definitely get some opinions on it.
     
  13. Apr 15, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    I am still struggling to get the brakes to bleed properly....I have a Willwood dual circuit MC, with one circuit to the front, and one circuit to the rear. I am getting good fluid out of the driver side on both the front and rear - so half of each circuit is bleeding nicely. But I am getting no fluid out of the passenger side on either circuit. I have a junction/T-block for both the front and rear to split driver from passenger sides, but that is all.....I was thinking blocked lines at first, or wondering if I need a proportioning valve in the lines somewhere - there is no disc brakes, all 11" oem drum brakes? When I started this project I wasn't expecting a complete redo of all the lines etc...so kinda learning as I go
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  14. Apr 15, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Describe good fluid. Does it squirt out with good pressure or just kinda run out when you open the bleeder.
     
  15. Apr 15, 2020
    Lockman

    Lockman My " Rosie" 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    Hi James,
    From my brake experience & with what you describe , I don't think it's a plug of some kind ? You most likely already know this , but your rear passenger side should be the farthest wheel away & that should be getting flow first ?
    Are you Bleeding old school way , with a helper pumping the pedal ? You could try gravity bleeding that right rear, say overnight & see if you start to get flow there first.
     
  16. Apr 15, 2020
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    yes - on both driver sides....at the line going into the RR cylinder I can get a trickle. Didn't pull the line on the RF yet...needed to walk away.
    not in this case...the rear circuit runs around the front frame x-member, down the passenger side rail, and to the rear axle where the 'T' is much closer to the right side brake. (although I did quite a bit of new brake line work in the front - that routing is OEM).
    done both...
     
  17. Apr 15, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I agree, doesn't sound like it's plugged, especially both front and rear? Another option is a vacuum bleeder.
     
  18. Apr 15, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    You do have separate front and rear brakes plumbed, right?
     
  19. Apr 15, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I understand your postings as you do, just making sure.
     
  20. Apr 15, 2020
    Lockman

    Lockman My " Rosie" 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    I forgot this info :
    A 4-wheel drum brake system doesn't use proportioning or metering valves . I believe your Wildwood duel MC would have residual valves in it's ports? Do you have it's spec's ? Anyway, you should be good to go there.
    Plus .... I feel your pain. Bleeding Brake systems typically just ....SUCK ! :banghead:
     

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