Dauntless Lowhoods

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by oldtime, May 14, 2016.

  1. May 14, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,498
    Currently doing Dauntless engine mock up experiments into a nearly standard 3B frame.
    Basically I'm installing a standard Dauntless engine having rear dump exhaust manifolds.
    Trying out engine placement with T-15 and also with T-18 transmissions.

    3B Frame modifications include:

    1) Removal of Hurricane engine brackets.
    Will be using the standard Dauntless frame brackets removed from 1966-1971 CJ-5.

    2) Removal of standard battery tray.
    Will be installing low mounted M38 battery tray.

    3) Removal of standard pedal pivot bracket.
    Pedal pivot bracket is now converted over to a cast iron with bronze bushing from an M38.

    4) Removal of standard single master cylinder bracket.
    Installed bracket and dual master cylinder from a 67-71 CJ-5.

    5) Removal of steering bellcrank bracket from the front crossmember.
    Will be going to Saginaw manual or possibly a power Saginaw as removed from an intermediate CJ plus DJ steering column.

    I have a stock 3B body tub setting on the frame to check those clearances but will be changing over to a low hood body after I locate one.
    Body is not lifted on the frame and I prefer not to do so.

    Thinking about the ideal engine height underneath the low hood.
    Basically I'll want the engine mounted as high as it can go using a Dauntless dry type air filter.
    Rochester 2GC = 4" height and Dauntless air cleaner = 3-1/8" ? height.
    ? = modified spacer . I don't have the correct aluminum air cleaner spacer.
    Question: Anyone have the aluminum spacer measurement ?
    I need total of 7-1/8" (?) from carburetor base just to close the hood with zero hood clearance.
    Hood seem at center hangs down 1/2".

    Question: How much clearance must I have between the hood seam and the top of air cleaner ?
     
  2. May 14, 2016
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Sponsor Sponsor

    virginia
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
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    [​IMG]


    is this what you are talking about? hope this helps. this is whats under my air cleaner with 2G on my cj 6
     
  3. May 14, 2016
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,318
    Very difficult to keep a stock cj air cleaner under a low hood. The motor either has to go lower ( which means lift springs to clear the oil pan on the pumpkin) or going up with a fiberglass Bobcat type hood. One big huge puzzle. Add in the steering, motor mount, radiator placement and drive shaft angles and it starts to get busy under the hood
     
  4. May 14, 2016
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,471
    My 225 sits on CJ5 frame engine mounts.
    Still using a modified 2A radiator in stock mounting position.
    Smaller battery and battery tray in stock 2A position.
    Saginaw with power steering, AA headers.
    Stock intake and Rochester 2bbl.
    I do not use the aluminum air cleaner spacer.
    I also never need a working choke.
    I just bent the choke lever 90 degrees and put a stock GM type dry air filter on it.
    Probably have at least 1 inch, maybe more, of air cleaner to hood clearance.
    Never been an issue.
     
  5. May 14, 2016
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    7,471

    Yep, that's it. I won't have to take a picture of the one I have now.
     
  6. May 15, 2016
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
    Joined:
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    I should mention that the GM air cleaner base needs a "bump" in base for area clearance around the accelerator pump linkage as well if not using the luminum spacer.
     
  7. May 15, 2016
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,498
    Yeah thanks 3B a runnin.
    I think that aluminum spacer would put the Dauntless air cleaner up much too high.
    At best I will have to make a shortened version of the stock spacer if I expect the Dauntless filter to fit.

    Yes Daryl ,
    I'm trying to fit everything together at once.
    Besides that I'm testing for differences between T15 vs T18 .....
    also D18 vs D20 .....
    also offset axle vs centered rear axle.....
    also D25 vs D30.....
    also body fit.....
    also driveshaft angles and clearances.....
    also Ross vs Saginaw.....
    and several more issues like master cylinder and pedal shaft clearance.

    I have all Jeep options at my disposal and trying to determine which specific components compliment one another the best.

    Yes Jim,
    I was thinking 1" hood clearance minimum.
    Have no real way to determine effects of frame twisting while the engine is torqueing to the side..
    I'm using the CJ-5 engine brackets but may need to position them a little lower than they are designed.
    May need to bend the Dauntless brackets so they set 1/4" or 1/2" lower.
    Question: Anyway you can stuff some putty or something on top your air cleaner and measure the gap ?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For direct comparison, I have a complete stock standard 3B running gear sitting right next to my modified build.
    Here's a little bit of what I've learned so far.....

    The Hurricane crankshaft sets exactly 1-1/2" left of frame centerline (CL).
    The transfer case input also sets exactly 1-1/2" left of frame CL.
    In fact the standard radiator CL is also 1-1/2" left of frame CL.
    But the Dauntless engine has multiple fitment issues if set 1-1/2" left of CL.

    The Dauntless needs to be exactly 3/4" left of frame CL.
    It cannot go further right or the propeller shaft gets too close to the oil pan.
    It cannot go further left or the brake pedal shaft and steering clearance becomes a problem.
    In fact that 3/4" offset is exactly where the CJ-5 engine mounts position it from side to side.
    The transfer case then also needs to be moved over so the input lines up at 3/4" left of frame CL.

    The fore/aft Dauntless position with T15 is absolutely ideal with rear engine support crossmember in standard fore/ aft location.
    In other words T15 provides perfect transmission and transfer case positioning to the floor opening and bell housing clearance is also ideal.
    Plus it retains the standard flatfender propeller shafts when installing a T15.

    T18 Is perhaps a better fit than the T15 except the Dauntless brackets must move foreward another 1-1/4".
    That extra 1-1/4" of foreward position dimenishes the radiator clearance.
    But that can actually be be a very good thing if the grill pre-shroud is trimmed halfway off.

    Removing 1/2 distance of the 2A/3A grill preshroud repositions the center of the radiator.
    With 1/2 of the preshroud removed the new radiator CL is now 3/4" left of frame CL which is the same as Dauntless engine offset.
    With 1/2 of the preshroud removed the grill now more readily accepts the narrow 17" Dauntless radiator.
    With 1/2 of the preshroud removed the radiator moves 1-1/4" away from the fan.
    That extra 1-1/4" is perfect for use with T18 fore/ aft positioning
    Believe it or not the standard flatfender propeller shafts are retained with a T18 transmission and D18 transfer case.

    The Dauntless has no real issue with engine being too low.
    Engine height does not interfere with D25 nor D30 front axles evan at full stuff.
    The oil pan sets notably higher than a Hurricane.
    But I still want to get engine up as high as possible with hood clearance issues.

    Ideally I hope to avoid bending the CJ-5 Dauntless brackets.
    For starters it looks like I may be forced to eliminate the Dauntless air filter and find something with less height.
    Body lift is my fail safe option if I encounter any hood interferance from frame flexing etc.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  8. May 16, 2016
    ETZFAM

    ETZFAM FLATIES & ROUND FENDERS, SOME EVEN RUN

    WENATCHEE, WA
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    63
    With my 3B, I went a different direction, I used a 1967 CJ-5 frame already had the odd-fire, T-14, D-25, D-44 rear, body does come out about 2 or 3 inches short on the back end?

    Rick
     

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