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Cj5 Is It My Water Pump?

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Candace, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Yes, the hub height is problematic. With the wrong height, the pulleys will not line up - assuming they do now. A 1/4" difference is a lot. You need a 4.5" hub height to match the pump that came off.
     
  2. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    20190802_123625_resized.jpg 20190802_123814_resized.jpg
    The number of the pump isn't the same as the one you had found from GMB either, timgr.

    Ugh. This is so frustrating. :cry: But if I need to send this back and order the other one, I will.

    Thank you, Chilly, for finding it for me. <3
     
    Hellion likes this.
  3. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    The number you show is for these applications

    upload_2019-8-2_14-47-56.png

    as shown online at RockAuto, but it's wrong. The Jeep factory part number that I found, 8120130, points to this pump, but it's wrong. Apparently the AMC guys have been dealing with this issue for a while, according to the AMC forum that Chilly posted.

    0.3" off should be easily visible. What you show in your earlier posts with the old pump seems perfectly aligned.

    If you want you can assemble the new pump to the engine finger-tight with no gasket (to keep it clean), put the pulley on and put a ruler across the pulley. I predict it will be obviously way out of line.

    Who was the seller? The seller should take back what they sent you, and pay for return postage if you got it by mail. You have plenty of evidence that the listing is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
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  4. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    I ordered it from partsgeek. That's who Napa said to use.

    I looked at the 3 sites listed that have the other one Chilly found. And they seem like small places I will probably have to call to order it from. But maybe that's better. At least they will probably know their :poo:. Unlike the large distribution places that just send out what the computer tells them to.
     
  5. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

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    In the mean time, I guess I can try to see what's wrong with the gauge. I've been using that service manual for the 74 that you posted the link too, timgr. And it has a diagnosis guide for it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  6. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I feel for you. BTDT. This is a nearly 50 yo car, and an oddball (although not an extreme oddball, like some Jeep models). Plus these intermediate Jeeps parts support seems to be the worst of any of the CJ line. Service parts like this are usually widely available, but not in this case.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  7. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Excellent. A noble and worthwhile endeavor. :coffee:
     
  8. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Look at this picture -

    [​IMG]

    Notice how much larger the casting is around the shaft. The bearing in the pump has to be much larger (stronger) and it's also further out on the shaft. I suspect this makes the newer style of pump much more durable than the earlier style. It could also better withstand a heavier load due to more belts and devices on the front of the engine; power steering, air conditioning, smog pump. I presume this is why the hub is out further - it can't be much closer to the pump body.
     
  9. Aug 2, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member 2019 Sponsor

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    More info. Turns out there were THREE types of pumps. But the oldest predates V8 in CJ5
    Long/short shaft water pumps

    I'm wondering if your new later style pump would work OK with a later style pump pulley. In that the pulleys would align and heater hoses wont interfere with any acxessories. Your alternator bracket looks like my 73, so maybe?

    Tell you what. I have a spare crank pulley and fan pulley from a later Jeep 304. Would you like them to try out? Maybe you can use that pump after all. I'll ship to you free because 1. You are learning stuff, and we are able to learn along with you, and 2. It'd be sort of a donation to the site in that our purpose is to keep these things running. I learned a lot here. I ask only that you keep posting your findings, and consider a site donation someday. PM me soon if you want them. I'm in middle of moving from PA to TN and if I dont hear back soon the pulleys will be in a box for a long time.

    Started a thread related to this possibility. Maybe join up and follow it.
    Upgrade to Later Water Pumo
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
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  10. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    I'd think the straightforward way to use the newer pump is to move the crank pulley and alternator forward by 0.3". The crank pulley is separate from the damper, so a spacer should be sufficient. For the alternator, likely the easiest path would be to move the bracket forward by spacers between the bracket and the block. I don't think there would be any clearance problems otherwise.
     
  11. Aug 2, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member 2019 Sponsor

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    I dont know for sure, Tim. But that alternator bracket looks very similar to my later. Maybe the pump and pump pulley were changed to provide a more robust pump bearing, keeping rest of pulley drive assemblies the same? If so then changing pump and pulley would be simple
     
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  12. Aug 3, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

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    I cant see the pic!
     
  13. Aug 3, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    One of your pictures, copied into the post. All I did was copy and paste the top picture of post 65 in this thread.
     
  14. Aug 3, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

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    I would love to try it. Do you think it's something that I can do? o_O
     
  15. Aug 3, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member 2019 Sponsor

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    Of course you can try. Install the long snout pump dry, dont torque everything, then put on my pulley and see if belt is straight.

    If your return policy has a time constraint dont risk by waiting on a pulley that might not work.
     
  16. Aug 3, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    You are thinking the later water pump pulley will be deeper to accommodate the taller hub? Easy enough to measure, without exchanging any parts. Same with the respective crank pulleys.

    Just FYI, the 304 crank pulley part numbers are different between '72 and '74. Does not confirm or deny compatibility - still might work.
     
  17. Aug 3, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

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    I have 30 days. And I already put it on dry to see how far off it was before I called about returning it. I was going to post pics for you guys. And send the company pics too if necessary.

    Speaking of torque...in the book timgr posted it says the amount to torque things to when replacing the pump. Does it really want me to use a torque wrench?
     
  18. Aug 3, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Re torque, you could ... if a torque is listed, it would be a good idea. Some applications, it's required, like cylinder head bolts.

    For general assembly of steel nuts and bolts, you probably would not bother. My mechanic friend used his "calibrated forearm" - after a while, you get a feel for what's needed. But if you have any doubt, measure.
     
  19. Aug 3, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

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    20190803_104552_resized.jpg 20190803_104639_resized.jpg 20190803_104725_resized.jpg I had to stick my phone down in there and hope for the best. The pulleys aren't touching if it looks like it in one of the pics...
    The first pic seems to be the most accurate.
     
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  20. Aug 3, 2019
    Hellion

    Hellion Banned

    Eastern TN
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    A decent torque wrench might not be a bad investment for your ongoing
    Grandpa’s Jeep project. They’re kind of fun to use, or satisfying.
    I have a few of the Harbor Freight ones in ft lbs and inch lbs.

    You take great pics, Candace.
     

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