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Cj5 Is It My Water Pump?

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Candace, Jul 26, 2019.

  1. Aug 1, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Use your super strength. Battery disconnected? Push on the alternator, or remove it completely.
     
  2. Aug 1, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL Member 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Sometimes a piece of wood broom-handle or such makes a good lever for moving an alternator adjuster.
     
  3. Aug 1, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    Got it.
     
  4. Aug 1, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    20190801_214057_resized.jpg Here is a pic of the two together. The gasket lines up perfect on the old one.
     
    Hellion likes this.
  5. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    20190802_002015_resized.jpg 20190802_002120_resized.jpg 20190802_002048_resized.jpg Ok. The holes all line up perfectly if I set the gasket on the new one and the old one. But I thought the new one looked way taller so I stood them on their side against a piece of wood to measure them. The difference in height wasn't as dramatic as I initially thought, but the old one is 5" and the new one is about 5 1/4" tall. Will that mess things up?

    I'm about done for tonight. I'll get back at it in the morning.

    Thanks guys! <3
     
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  6. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    I traced the new water pump and laid the bolts out on the drawing where they went as I took them out.
     
  7. Aug 2, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    The part of the shaft that they are resting on... the nipple, for lack of a better word; is the new one longer?

    The critical measurement (for belt alignment) is the measurement you are taking, minus that nipple. The flange that the pulley bolts to determines how far your pulley will be away from your engine. If the flanges are as different as you’re showing, 1/4” difference is not ideal and will mess up your belts.
     
  8. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    pics are up...let me know what you think.
     
  9. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    The nipple is longer on the new one. I'll measure without counting it.
     
  10. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    Without the nipple I get 4 5/8" on the new one and 4 1/2" on the old. So that's 1/8" difference...
    Too much?

    (i'm having a hard time getting my measuring exact)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  11. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    20190802_011100_resized.jpg 20190802_011113_resized.jpg
    Here's some pics with the pump off. IDK what the timing cover is that was mentioned. And there's some big gouges in there from the old pump...
     
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  12. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    Ugh! I keep second guessing and redoing the measuring. I'm going to go with 4 1/2" on old and 4 11/16" on new.
    And you can see what you think. Here's pics. 20190802_012900_resized.jpg 20190802_013031_resized.jpg
     
  13. Aug 2, 2019
    Lockman

    Lockman My " Rosie" 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    Candace , Sometimes there is a nut behind the adjusting bolt , at the rear of the alternator ? Look for that & don't forget Liquid wrench on ANY nuts and Bolts that you are removing. Even after you break one free, a little squirt helps us a Lot ! You are in a very Dry area & Granpa's Jeep has sat for a long time. Anyway , you're getting a good ' feel' for the front of your engine.........That goes a long way in learning. GodSpeed & Good Luck.
     
  14. Aug 2, 2019
    Lockman

    Lockman My " Rosie" 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    Candace,
    Do the bolt patterns line up ? I'm concerned that that is not the correct Water Pump. I could Be Wrong...... But ?
     
  15. Aug 2, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member 2019 Sponsor

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    Looks like a different pump to me. Notice how at least one boss for a 1/4-20 bolt is much thicker than the old pump. I also think the orientation of the bypass hose spigot is different. I think what you bought is a later pump,, seems you might need an early pump. I believe the change happened in 72. Clean cut-in at start of model year? Phased in as stock was used up? Based on vehicle model? I doubt anyone knows for sure anymore.



    Search "AMC V8 water pump difference", and go to Bulltear forum. Lots of pump info there.
     
  16. Aug 2, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member 2019 Sponsor

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    Hellion and timgr like this.
  17. Aug 2, 2019
    Chilly

    Chilly Active Member 2019 Sponsor

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    Do not toss that pump. It's rare, and can be rebuilt. You will likely need a core to buy a rebuild.

    The new pump will fit timing cover but hoses will interfere with things. If you updated other parts you could use the later pump. Its the same engine and timing cover. Front end accessories and pulleys changed, thats all.

    Timing cover looks fine. Gouges arent uncommon. IMPORTANT: Mount up pump with NO GASKET and confirm that pump spins free without rubbing. Impellers arent always installed to correct depth and may rub. Mine needed pushed on a bit further using a hydraulic press.

    Now would be a fine time to address any oil pressure issues that you may know of. Pump gears are accessible now. Biggest issue is gears wearing into the aluminum end plate. Bulltear has TONS of info on options to fix. But not difficult to address later with everything back on, so long as oil pump gear housing isnt chewed up. Your timing cover looks fine under the water pump. Id use that one all day long
     
  18. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I would look at fit, in this order. First, does the bolt pattern match the one that came off? It has to bolt on and seal. I'd also check that the pulley will bolt on and not rub the pump casting.

    Next I would look at the hub height of the pump, from the sealing surface to the bolt surface for the pulley. This has to be right, within say 1/16" or less. This distance will determine the alignment of the belts, which has to be exact. To me, this pump fails this test, with the old pump measuring 4.5" and the new pump 4.75" - this is way out.

    I'd also look that the nipples for the hose connections point the same way on the new pump as the old. This test also fails, to my eye. The main offender is the crudely formed heater hose outlet on the top of the pump, which points the wrong way. This may not be a problem in this case, but the direction of these nipples can matter to whether the pump will work for this application, or instead interfere with the rest of the equipment on the front of the engine.

    I'd reject.

    Looking online, all the pumps I've found that list that info have a 4.8" or 4.81" hub height. This is the same as the replacement you have. I would put the old pump back on the Jeep and see if the belt alignment would benefit from the 1/4" higher hub height. These pumps are not the same, but it could be that the pump that was on there was too short, not that the new pump is too tall. Also, I'd check that the 4.5" measurement you show for the old pump is right, and not because of the perspective in the picture.

    I'd also point out that the GMB 1101040 (Jeep PN 8125131) has outlets that are more like the pump you have now, though it's also listed as a 4.8" hub height. More Information for GMB 1101040 This is the same pump that the Wagoneer forum guys like, with an aluminum body: More Information for GMB 1101040P
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  19. Aug 2, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! This is what you need! Great work Chilly! Box up that other piece of junk and get the one that Chilly points to. The extra expense will be worth it.

    I'd also look into getting the old core rebuilt. There are companies that rebuild these oddball pumps. I'd buy a new one and get the old one rebuilt, but my pockets are likely deeper than yours. Hang on to that core.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  20. Aug 2, 2019
    Candace

    Candace Member

    La Verkin, Utah
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    20190802_110222_resized.jpg
    Here's the two next to each other from the top. The placement of the one thing the hose connects to won't mess anything up or get in the way. All of the bolt holes line up. But the height it seems, will be problematic?
     

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