Axle Swap Need Advise

Thanks in advance.
I bought a '69 CJ5 (my first jeep, ever) that has a Dana 27 Closed knuckle (gears are trashed) and a Dana 44 rear axle 3.73. In the purchase I received a set of '78 axles out of a CJ5 that the owner was going to do a swap with. The '78 axles are not complete and I am working on gathering part information for the brakes and hubs. The width of the original axel tubes are Front 2.25" and Rear 2.5" the '78 axel tubes have a width of 2.5". I also noticed that the '78 rear axle pinion gear is more centered that the original '69, after measuring it seems to be about 6" more centered I am not sure if this will cause any issues or not? After researching on online manual for a '78 cj5, I see that my differential cover on the rear is completely round and the manual refers to that as an AMC/Jeep axle it has the letter code "N" stamped on the tube which seems to be Trak-Lok - 3.54:1. My plan is to drive this jeep as more of a daily driver than on off-road machine.

Question #1
Should I just keep the original axles in and wait for a better replacement or install the "78 axles?
Question #2
Will the pinion being 6" inches more centered cause any issues ?
Question #3
I am trying to order a suspension lift kit with a 2.5" lift, will I order for a '69 or a '78? I would think '69 :{)

Again thank you for the help. I am a newbie at jeeps so bear with me if these are dumb questions.

 

You must use an offset rear axle. The '78 axle, if centered, will not work with your offset transfer case output. Anyway, the '78 rear axle is considered to be a cigar butt of an axle (AMC Corporate 20) and is not an upgrade over your factory equipment rear Dana 44. Plus the spring pads are in the wrong place, so you would have to move the pads inboard.

The 3.73 ratio is fine for what you describe. Easiest/fastest would be to find another Dana 27 with 3.73 gears and bolt it in. The 27 is not in great demand, and you should be able to find a replacement inexpensively.

You may be able to use the front axle. The front Dana 30 is a popular upgrade for these Jeeps, but you would have to make the front and rear gear ratios match. Setting up axle gears is likely the most challenging job an amateur mechanic could attempt, so you'd probably have to pay some one to do it. Neither the parts or labor will be cheap. You say the axles are not complete - show us a picture of what you have and what's missing.

 

Tim's suggestion is the path of least resistance (and cost!)
The other option would be to use the Dana 30 front axle from the 78, and regear it to 3.73
This is a common upgrade on early CJ's & give you a somewhat stronger axle with a slightly wider track & better turning circle.

 

The 30 also has open knuckles, which requires less maintenance than the closed knuckle 27. The knuckles on any closed knuckle axle on a Jeep that has not been owned by an enthusiast is almost certainly going to need going through .. new seals, inspect and repair studs, new kingpin bearings, set preload, maybe more. All of that is replaced by the ball joints on a 30, which are considerably more durable and much more straightforward in operation and replacement.

 

My opinion is the same as above. Use only the Dana 30 from the '78. You will need to regear to 3:73 which will require swapping the inner carrier (case) to allow compatibility with the lower gears. Though slightly wider, the D30 allows for tighter turning and often has better brakes (disc brakes from '77-up?).
The alternate would be to find another closed knuckle Dana 27 with the 3:73 gears installed.
The AMC Corporate 20 rear would not be of much use as they are not as regarded as strong as your original D44, and the modifications needed to make it fit.
-Donny

 

27's are a dime a dozen. If you were near me I'd give you one if you showed up with a 6 pack to yak jeep. Personally I'd just source another complete one and drive on. Refit the 30 as time allows for a future swap. Tie a rope to the corporate 20 and use it for an anchor. Can't go wrong with the 44 leave it.

 

Guys thanks for all the input, it has helped tremendously. I will start looking to see what the cost would be to re-gear the narrow 30. If I go with the Narrow 30 would the lift kit designed for a '69 be the right option? I may just reinstall the original axles until I can find a suitable replacement and just not use the front drive shaft. I am just trying to avoid putting to much money into something that will eventually be replaced. One last question when I go to put the narrow 30 in I will be having to upgrade my steering. If I stick with a manual steering setup what parts would I be using for the steering? Do I need to change the steering box along with linkage? will upload pics of the axle next.

 

Yep. A lift kit for a '69 will work with either the 27 or 30.

Steering upgrade is a whole other topic. We have a thread under the "builds" forum just about steering - Saginaw Power Steering (pics) Please Add Yours! You can use the existing Ross steering with the 30. Keep the 1-piece tie rod that came with the 30. I believe you can repurpose the factory left hand tie rod as a drag link from the bellcrank to the right steering arm of the 30.

 

Thanks I will read it over. I am having trouble getting the pictures attached. There was not much left of this axle as far as steering goes. But I think I can look around and find something that will work online.

 

Here are the photos of the 30.

 

I just looked in Classified Ads, Jack Dog may have just what you need. He has D-27 parts for sale, and they are 3:73's. Good Luck

 

Ok I will check it out thanks

 

Hey guys I was doing a little bit more inspection on my ‘69 and it looks like they swapped the D18 out for D20. At this point since the D20 is a centered output could I run a centered axle?

 

If it is a dana 20 then yes. Speaking on the path of least resistance it is the way to to go. The big issue with the amc rear is the tubes are weak and can bend but for a primarily on road jeep it won't matter.

 

I found a set of axles out of a ‘86 cj5 with 37,000 miles on them. A 30 front w/brakes and a 44 w/ brakes. They are asking 1000 for them but I thought about offering around 750.

 

It could be a deal if everything is in good shape, but not so good if there is a problem inside the diffs. Make sure you check inside and see what they are selling. A lot of play between the ring and pinion gears would not be good and if you have to re-gear, it becomes pretty pricey. Check gear ratio as well. Good luck.

 

Again, a rear axle from 1976 or later will have the wrong pad spacing for a '75 or earlier. You will need to weld on new pads at the right location and angle. An '86 will very likely also have a shallow ratio like 3.31s. These axles also have a wider track than your factory axles. You will at least need plastic flares. If the Dana 20 came from a '78 it would have the wrong output gear to work with the factory transmission ... looking at this chart, The Novak Guide to Dana 18 & 20 Gears Interchange 1941-1979 you would need an output gear specifically for the 20. The T-150 gear from 1978 has a seal ridge that may or may not work with your factory transmission. Something to be aware of.

Better to look for axles from 1972-75, if you are running a centered output. They will give you the stronger Dana 44 flanged rear axle with the right pad spacing, an open front 30, a decent gear ratio (3.73 std 4.27 opt) and 11"x2" Bendix drum brakes. Not disks, but the Bendix brakes are an excellent upgrade that stop very well and are fine for most owners. Bendix drum brake parts are cheap too, and widely available.

Or you could switch back to a Dana 18 and keep your current rear axle, and fix the front axle.

 

I agree with Tim. The 72-75 axles would be ideal if indeed you will be running the Dana 20 transfer case. The 1986 cj7 axles would be very desirable for the cj7 crowd. Only the last of the 86 cj7s received the dana 44 rear axle - its somewhat rare. The ratio could be even worse than Tim mentions - ours are 2.73.
I think - since you mentioned this being more of a road Jeep - I would look closely into the 78 axles you have. At first my thought was perhaps find another dana 30 - a complete one. However if the axles are in good condition otherwise maybe it makes sense to have the spring pads moved on the model 20 and source the brake parts or buy a brake kit for the front axle. You could buy other axles but you might end up buying bearings rotors calipers and tie rod ends etc. anyways.

 

Thanks guys a lot of info to digest. I think you best thing is to think it through and not spend money where it is not needed. Hope I don’t have to bother you to much more, thanks all.