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Rookie's 67 Cj5 (re)build - Here We Go....again

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by jbrucru, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. Jan 12, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    Ugh. Tonight I tore into the transmission. I had posted a video in the tech section about the noise this was making. A lot of people commented that it wasn't too loud compared to theirs. But once I opened it up, it was ugly. The overdrive came right off without a fuss, so I was pleased with that. But the transmission is another story. There is a lot of pitting on the gears.

    IMG_5979.jpg IMG_5980.jpg

    Then I found this once I took out the cluster gear. Yup, that's light shining right through where the bolt goes. I guess it can be plugged with RTV, but I have a spare case lying around, so at least I can swap it out.

    IMG_5983.jpg

    The countershaft has some nasty pitting on it, and the input shaft where the roller bearings has pitting, as well as in input gear itself. There was only 1 clutch dog with a tab left on one side. Grrr.


    IMG_5984.JPG IMG_5986.JPG IMG_5988.JPG IMG_5989.JPG IMG_5990.JPG

    So now I'm pondering....replace everything except the sliding gear? Post a WTB in the classifieds for parts or a T90J or spend a bunch of money with Novak? I'm half way regretting digging into this.

    Last night I dropped the fenders, hood, grill, and tail gate at a friend's house who does professional body work. He's getting them media blasted, and then is going to start painting. I'm going with Empire Blue. Originally I considered pulling the tub and doing it all, but I decided I just don't want to pull the wiring harness and heater core again. The floor is solid, but the rear floor is pretty dinged up, so he's going to Raptor line the interior.

    When this is all done, it's going to look amazing. But right now, I have enough work on my hands before I can tow the body over to him.

    Next up - the transfer case....
    IMG_5991.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
    Fireball and Lilbuff63 like this.
  2. Jan 13, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    End of the night post.... I couldn't help it...I had to drive out the intermediate shaft. Surprisingly, there is no pitting, and to my eyes it looks really good. I may just reuse it.
    IMG_5992.JPG
     
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  3. Jan 13, 2022
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    Jun 28, 2006
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    2,315
    of course you replace everything. you haven't come this far to stuff questionable parts back in, right?
     
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  4. Jan 13, 2022
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
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    3,813
    Yep, replace. I would be looking for an entire, complete T90. Around here, those are just worth scrap price. You would likely need to go through anything you get used but one that hasn't been lubed with water will have a lot more usable parts. Whatever you do, don't buy Omix replacement parts. I'm not too fond of Crown either but at least most of their parts actually fit. Find NOS or good used originals.
     
  5. Jan 13, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    Thanks Duffer. After looking inside the transfer case, it has the same problems. I'm considering just calling Herm and getting a rebuilt 18. It's hard to find parts locally. I think there is only one other CJ5 in town. I'd love to find a good condition T90J to drop and go, but I'll rebuild if needed.
     
  6. Jan 14, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    Ok. I bit the bullet tonight and decided that if I'm going to do all this again, at least I will do it right. That means pulling the tub so the bottom is painted too. I really didn't want to pull the wiring harness, but it wasn't as bad as I thought...just a couple hours of work.

    Also pulled the wheels to get them sandblasted and painted, and installed the new Monroe shocks I bought a few weeks ago. The tear down is coming along nicely, and I should be able to get the tub out of the garage this weekend. Then I can clean up the 305 and start figuring out where it is leaking. I'm suspecting the rear main, as there was oil in the bell housing. But starter side also had a lot of oil near the dip stick tube. Hmmm.

    Bad news is the transfer case gears are trash too, and apparently someone (me) used too long a bolt in the oil pan and cracked a piece on the inside. I'm really considering buying one of Herms rebuilt ones.

    At least this isn't my first go-around with a tub-off rebuilt. I'm a decade older...hopefully wiser :rofl:

    Needless to say...this will be garage kept from now on.

    IMG_6002.JPG


    Wiring coming out
    IMG_6004.JPG

    All gone except the temp sensor gauge and the heater...
    IMG_6007.JPG


    I also had some helpers in the garage who wanted to rebuild their Jeep too...

    IMG_5999.JPG

    Enough for tonight....
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
  7. Jan 15, 2022
    Madeline3b

    Madeline3b Optimized for analog

    PNW
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    Feb 19, 2021
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    84
    So cool bud, enjoy it they grow so fast!
     
  8. Jan 17, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    .

    Thanks! I love that they're excited about it too. My grandfather was a Dodge/Chrysler dealer in the 50's/60's, and worked as a mechanic up until his late 70's in the same old turn-of-the-century garage that belonged to his father. They were originally buggy makers. I'm certainly not a mechanic, but I'm glad I can tinker, and they can pick up some of the family heritage. My great grandfather had one of the first cars in their small town - a 1904 Oldsmobile that he bought used in 1907. That's still in the family, and still runs. Single cylinder engine with a crank on the side. It's fallen on me to keep it running, so I'm hoping to pass on the passion and knowledge to them down the line. This is my great grandfather in the drivers seat of the Oldsmobile outside their garage - probably during the rubber shortage during WW2.

    IMG_F064B24C1CEF-1.jpeg


    I pulled the intermediate gear tonight. The surface wasn't terrible, but the interior.....that's a different story. The hardened Novak shaft looked pretty good, but this explains the extremely loud whine.


    IMG_6034.JPG

    I also finished up taking everything off the body. It's completely unbolted now and ready to take for media blasting. Once it's gone, that'll give me some time to do what ever I decide to do with the transmission and transfer case, and clean up the engine and find the oil leak(s). I have the day off tomorrow, so I may tinker a bit more.

    IMG_6027.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
  9. Jan 18, 2022
    cj2atruck

    cj2atruck Member

    Spokane, WA
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2020
    Messages:
    65
    Advanced Adapter makes a taper bearing kit for the intermediate shaft. The needle bearings went south in my D18 earlier this year ruining the bearing surface of my intermediate gear, so I now have my intermediate shaft machined for the taper bearings waiting for me to get motivated to pull the D18 again and install.
     
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  10. Jan 26, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    175
    Things have been a bit slower this week while I wait on parts to come in. I have almost everything to rebuild the T90 and Dana 18 - just waiting on that sticky assembly grease recommended by Novak to show up on my front porch. I've got a friend with a shop that is going to help me out with a few things. I'll let him press the bearings on for me instead of using a drift (which I did last time). He's also helped guide me on what to do with my engine. I hope to have the T90 and D18 finished up this weekend. I also have some friends lined up to help lift the tub off and get it onto my trailer to be painted.

    Last week I started cleaning up the engine. My original plan to not pull it has changed a bit (more on that later), but in the mean time I started scraping off old blue spray paint and tons of oil, grease, and mud. I don't think I knew it had a chrome timing cover. It started looking pretty good. Serial number indicates a 1980-84 SBC 305.

    IMG_6068.JPG

    So Saturday I pulled the oil pan to get to work on replacing the rear main seal. In the bottom of the oil pan, I found the pickup tube for the oil pump. I guess it had fallen off at some point. Oil pressure had remained around 20 at idle, and was always good when driving, so I had no clue that anything was wrong. I also spent a significant amount of time driving the broken dipstick tube out, but that needed to be done anyway.
    Then I pulled the rear main bearing to install the seal....

    IMG_6078.JPG

    IMG_6079.JPG Looks like the bearing is about done. Awesome. Crankshaft doesn't look great either....in my inexperienced view.

    So here's what I'm thinking... Sure, I could go find a 350 or a 305 on craigslist or FB marketplace and drop it in, but I might end up right back here in a few years with a freshly painted Jeep and a bad engine. I could also buy a new crate long block. I don't need any more power than the 305 gives out. And, I have a friend that is willing to help me rebuild this 305 and has all the tools to do it with (beyond the machine shop stuff.) All that being said, I'm leaning towards rebuilding it. Like I said - it had good oil pressure, and good compression. I'm pretty sure the valves need new seals. I guess that means I'm going to learn something new. Either way, I'm borrowing my friend's engine hoist and stand starting next week.
     

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  11. Jan 26, 2022
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    Jun 21, 2005
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    Sounds like it's worth it to rebuild it. You'll have piece of mind that it's fresh, and it should last for many years to come.
     
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  12. Jan 30, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
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    175
    Slow going this week. My plan was to get the transmission and transfer case rebuilt this weekend with the kits I got from Novak. It was mostly a success. The T90 went together without any problems.
    IMG_6097.jpg
    IMG_6102.jpg
    IMG_6105.jpg
    Then I started on the transfer case. Following the instruction from the video on Novak's site, I cut out the bushing to the front output shaft, and then went to visit my gear-head friend to use his press to put the new one in. Came home and installed everything. Torqued all the bolts to 30 ft lbs. Had to use all the shims I had to get the output to turn..over 1/4", and I realized the problem. Didn't press the bushing in far enough...by over a 1/4". :banghead:

    66517437588__66EB3B37-3506-4719-9659-3DBEA18CA953.JPG

    Note to others doing this --if you don't have any endplay, check the bushing to make sure the front output shaft slides into the main rear output shaft. Also - the wrong sized snap ring will cause issues too. Ask me how I know.....

    It's all together now, and I got to use my brand new dial gauge to check the end play. Right at .004. I'll take it. That new intermediate gear doesn’t look too bad either.

    IMG_6122.JPG

    Now....to seal it up with aviation sealant and install the T90 and overdrive. Then off to rebuild the 305.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2022
  13. Feb 1, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
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    175
    It's getting uglier every day. I pulled the intake and the heads tonight...and I found....sludge!

    IMG_6133.JPG

    IMG_6134.jpg

    What in the world? Anyone have any ideas what would have caused this kind of build up? Engine ran well - it would kick out a puff of black smoke when I started it, but would be fine afterwards. Antifreeze came out green and oil came out without any water in it. So...there's that. I'm going to take the heads and get them rebuilt, and then take the block and have it run through as well. The cylinder walls look good to my untrained eye..not cross hatching or scoring.

    My body shop guy took my wheels to be blasted and then he'll paint them. As soon as I get them back and tires mounted, I'll be able to roll the chassis to my chain hoist and pull the block.
    IMG_6126.JPG

    But, on the bright side, my friend texted me this today: my hood, fenders, and tail gate have been blasted and are back in his shop awaiting paint (and some minor repairs.)

    IMG_2272.jpg

    He does really good work, but doesn't use single stage paints. I think only uses PPG. I was planning on getting it Empire Blue, but we couldn't find any that was reasonably priced (He said the paint alone was going to run around $600.). I have him looking into Spruce Tip Green....which was the original plan for this build nearly 10 years ago before I hit it with MF grey tractor paint. We'll see.
     
  14. Feb 1, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    It looks like the intake gasket failed at the exhaust crossover port. The exhaust leak into the engine then cooked the local oil enough to make some nice carbon deposits. It should be fine if you clean it all up and use quality replacement gaskets.
     
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  15. Feb 2, 2022
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
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    I would love to see a good spruce tip green paint job. My jeep was originally that color, and I suspect only the inside of the dash is going to remain that color in the end.

    My wife wants black. 25 years later I feel that the (Ford ranger) jalepeno green I painted my jeep is a bit loud, so I'm leaning her way. I do love a green jeep though!
     
  16. Feb 2, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
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    Thanks for the help! I stopped by a local machine shop a friend recommended to drop heads off today. The guy said: "I'm trying to retire and am really trying to shut down the machine shop part of the store." Then I mentioned my project and he said: "well...let me see the heads." I brought them in and he said: "305, right? These look like they're off an early 80's Monte Carlo SS... that was the performance 305..a pretty good engine." He ended up taking them because he thought it looked like a good project. He told me to hide them out of sight :rofl: He's going to do a valve job and then let me bring in my block and crank. He commented that the crank didn't look bad in the picture I showed him...so that's a plus. Really glad he decided to take it on. I'm kind of happy to have a retirement-aged person that knew the heads immediately as the one doing the work...I know it'll be done right.

    Hopefully it will work out! We'll see if the paint cost the same. I'm wondering if a lot of these had lead in them, so they have to adapt and that is what cost more. I have no clue....


    And now for some comic relief. When I type in CJ5 or Willys or Jeep to my local FB, these are the kind of things for sale locally....

    IMG_6013.jpg IMG_6014.jpg IMG_6015.jpg IMG_6016.jpg

    My personal favorite is the one with the toilet.....:shock:
     
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  17. Feb 2, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Perfect for long drives.
     
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  18. Feb 3, 2022
    jbrucru

    jbrucru Member 2022 Sponsor

    Glasgow, KY
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
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    Late night playing.... started cleaning up VIN plate. Once I got the tractor paint off, the black was underneath. I kind of dig it. I may hit it with another round of black paint and then some 000 steel wool to shine the numbers. Then hit it with clear coat.

    IMG_6143.jpg
     
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  19. Feb 3, 2022
    givemethewillys

    givemethewillys Been here since sparky ran it. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    New Kent, VA
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    Jun 21, 2005
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    The kaiser era nameplates are much easier to read than the willys one on my '57! So much so that when I registered it back before the internet, we used the serial number on the f-head as the vin number. Now that the f-head is gone, and I know the actual vin number under all that cheap paint, I have to figure out how to square it away with the dmv, lol.
     
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  20. Feb 3, 2022
    Uncle Vin

    Uncle Vin Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Long Island, New...
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    http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/106728/. There is a good Spruce Tip Green paint job.
     
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