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58 Willy's CJ5 Questions

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by COLLIN GRANGER, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Mar 27, 2017
    COLLIN GRANGER

    COLLIN GRANGER New Member

    Upstate NY
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    I just picked up a 58 Willy's cj5 a couple weeks ago and need some input on build ideas. It's pretty much all stock original f134 and all. Has fiberglass tub though not a big fan of that. So anyways I'm looking to go summertime daily driver/ mudding build no rocks to climb around here. So any ideas on an engine swap on the cheaper side would like to keep t90 tranny and Dana 18 tc if possible. Was thinking of swaping in some 83 cj7 widetrack axles I found for dirt cheap with front disk brakes Dana 30 front amc 20 rear with 3.31 gears. I want the wider stance for bigger tires and more stability on the road. My grandpa hurt his back in the army due to a jeep roll over. Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Mar 27, 2017
    wasillashack

    wasillashack Member

    Wasilla, Alaska
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    Mar 17, 2008
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    F head at 60-65HP + 3.31 axle ratio= disappointing performance, even for street driving. You will most likely change one or more of these components to have something useful and usable. Wider axles are a plus for the reason stated, as much as I like all my Dauntless powered stuff, a 4.3 Chevy V6 will be easier to find, build (if necessary) and incorporates newer technology. An alternative might be a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder from an XJ, can be picked up cheap, has factory EFI, are virtually bulletproof and can be picked up for a song. YMMV Good luck!
     
  3. Mar 28, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Hi Collin - welcome from Boston!

    The Novak website has a lot of information on this topic - Novak Conversions Home - start with Engines->Installation Guide and follow the links from there. In terms of availability, price and ease of installation, the best is probably the Chevrolet 4.3L V6, followed by the Buick 225/231 V6. The Buick is a little easier to install, with the distributor in the front, but there are a lot of 4.3Ls out there, by themselves and in donor vehicles. Pick the right year, and the 4.3L also comes with GM/Rochester electronic fuel injection, which you can transplant in its entirety - a huge advantage.

    if this were for me, I would in no way consider installing 3.31 axles as an "upgrade." Anyway, the centered Corporate 20 won't work with the Dana 18 transfer case; you need an offset axle. And the 20 is a cigar butt... a throwaway axle. There's a reason for the low price. People pay big money for deep gears, and your CJ should have 5.38 gears. You want to keep the T-90, so I would say the original axles - or axles with deep gears like 5.38s or 4.88s - will be essential to off-road competency. Get some 11" drum brakes and go through the front knuckles, add a Warn/Saturn overdrive, and you are all set.

    The wider axles won't help you fit larger tires. A CJ already accommodates 31s easily and 32s or 33s with a mild lift. Any larger and you're going to need to cut some steel, or put the Jeep way up in the air. I would not go wild on the tire size, esp. with the factory axles. These Jeeps are already much more capable than most drivers, and your skill and technique matters greatly in where you will be able to go.

    What's wrong with the Jeep now? Jeeps require a lot of maintenance, and Jeeps that were not owned by enthusiasts typically have a lot of mechanical needs. I suggest that you make it reliable and wheel it the way it is for a while. Your plans will change. If this were mine, I would install bigger brakes first, then probably the overdrive, and next steering or engine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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  4. Mar 28, 2017
    COLLIN GRANGER

    COLLIN GRANGER New Member

    Upstate NY
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    After reading a little more on here I really would like to keep everything stock as possible. Even though it has a glass tub everything else looks to be original and I wanna keep it that way. The only mod I really wanna do is front disk brakes. The frame is solid which was a huge surprise to me with it going on 60 yeara old next year. My head lights and brake lights seemed to stop working not sure if it's a fuse or bad ground, I don't see where it's grounded to the glass tub which gives me hope the rest of the wiring isn't a complete mess. My gas guage needle is stuck on empty as well. It has a new radiator not sure which one yet. I was thinking about pertronix ignition as well I was reading that a hotter coil burns the fuel more efficient giving maybe a hp or 2, any truth to that? Lastly I think I need to go through and reseal almost everything carb leaking a bit of fuel at idle engine has some oil stains on front right side of engine haven't pulled skid plate to check tranny and tc yet so can't tell if it's mostly oil or combo of dirt and oil under it. I'm not looking for some drag race I'm fine going slower I just need at least 50top speed mostly small towns around here. So in my opinion the slower I go the longer ppl get to look at the jeep it's just the 55 between towns I'm worried about.
     
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  5. Mar 28, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Once you get your Jeep running and driving good I'm sure you will enjoy it as is. They will do 55 if need be. Don't forget that tires larger than stock make the speedometer read slower so the bigger the diameter the slower the speedo shows. 33's for example would show maybe around 50 mph but you're really doing around 55 or so.
     
  6. Mar 28, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I think the most common things to look for in the drivetrain are 1) noisy transfer case - the intermediate shaft bearings are worn out, 2) wobbly, leaky front knuckles - go through the knuckles with new seals, kingpin bearings, set preload, maybe stud repair, and 3) T-90 pops out of second gear or clashes - the bushing inside the 2nd gear wears out, needs new blocking rings and bearings.

    Re disk brakes, you'll probably want to fit a dual master cylinder too. This topic has been covered a lot, and brakes can be assembled from junkyard parts, or you can buy a kit. If you go front disk brakes, I'd suggest upgrading the rear drums too.
     
  7. Mar 28, 2017
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    If you are dead set on motor change, my vote is a 4.3 chevy. The 134 F head is a great motor for purists. For people who want to do off-roading, I question its capability. I only see streett so I can't really talk about its off road performance. It's a dog on the pavement so I imagine its a dog in the woods.
     
  8. Mar 28, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Not necessarily ... on the trail, you're usually in low range. And the 134 has a lot of low-end torque for its size, making it seem more powerful than it is. You'd notice the lack of power where you want a lot of wheel speed, like on the dunes or in deep mud. Or maybe a hill climb. But for putting along on most trails, it's fine.
     
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  9. Mar 28, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    The Pertronix by itself won't add any energy to the spark, it's simply replaces the points. It's advantage is it doesn't degrade over time requiring adjustment, cleaning, or replacement like points do.

    My advice is that before you start wholesale upgrades that you verify that the brakes & steering are working acceptably & then just drive it for a while & see how it works for you as stock. You can doo a lot with a stock jeep & a set of white walls with a bit of tread left on them :)




    If the F4 doesn't work for you off road or have enough pep for on road then that's the time to start planning out your engine upgrade.

    Although the disks or 11" drums will make life easier & a dual circuit system is a very good safety upgrade the 9" brakes are adequate for your stated usage if properly adjusted & you're used to non-power brakes.

    If you really find the jeep to be unstable you might want to check your shocks & tire pressures- I find a few PSI difference can make a big change in handling. If you do end up feeling more comfortable with a wider stance you could consider wheel spacers (ick) or rims with more backspacing.

    H.
     
  10. Mar 28, 2017
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Less backspace?
     
  11. Mar 28, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    X2

    Watch this too...Basics to get road worthy.
     
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  12. Mar 28, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    BTW...Unless the PO added more...There may only be 1 or 2 fuses for your Jeep.

    For sure, one coming off the ignition switch, before the flasher and possibly another between the flasher and light switch.

    A bad/poor ground is usually the suspect.
     
  13. Mar 28, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Point Taken :)

    Less backspace, more front space. :D

    H.
     
  14. Mar 28, 2017
    COLLIN GRANGER

    COLLIN GRANGER New Member

    Upstate NY
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    There's a fuse box on firewall under dash with a dozen fuses give or take. I think the pedal assembly is out of something else I feel like the accelerator and brake pedal are pretty much on top of eachother. I just got rear shocks in the other day. I think I agree that spacers would be my go to and also getting to drive it and see how I feel first. Haven't drove it yet as brake lights don't work. A little back story my girlfriend bought this for me as a surprise as I kept bugging about a jeep project. Im thinking I'm gonna have to put a ring on it haha. Anyways she had my buddy drive it home brake lights worked then he said brakes felt good and that felt a little topped out 45 mph and steering stiff and maybe a little play in rear (figured id start with rear shocks and go from there) last I've been trying to post pictures of all these things for you guys but when I copy link from Photobucket all that comes up is an icon that says img not the picture.
     
  15. Mar 28, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Have you looked at my PB tutorials?

    Post the PB image link here and let me look at it.
     
  16. Mar 28, 2017
    COLLIN GRANGER

    COLLIN GRANGER New Member

    Upstate NY
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  17. Mar 28, 2017
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    H :whistle: don't be first jeep to stall in mud :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  18. Mar 28, 2017
    COLLIN GRANGER

    COLLIN GRANGER New Member

    Upstate NY
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    00f0f_2cE5be1szrk_600x450.jpg 00f0f_2cE5be1szrk_600x450.jpg 00000_2iTDJAQicYc_600x450.jpg
     

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  19. Mar 28, 2017
    COLLIN GRANGER

    COLLIN GRANGER New Member

    Upstate NY
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    Alright I think I got the pictures down. I'll take a picture if places where it's leaking, pedals and this fuse box. Is there anything else I should shoot to have you guys better help?
     
  20. Mar 28, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's what I do, I know things and I fix stuff. Staff Member 2019 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Yeah... That's all wrong, but you got it now... Good job.
     

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