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198 Fireball V6

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by Sparky74cj, Jan 16, 2011.

  1. Jan 16, 2011
    Sparky74cj

    Sparky74cj Member

    Naches, Washington
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    Aug 7, 2009
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    Who knows much about the "Fireball" Buick 198 V6 offered in Buick cars prior to Jeeps 225 Buick V6..
    I know it is also a odd fire engine! and shares similar parts!

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  2. Jan 16, 2011
    m38willys

    m38willys Jeep Vice Sponsor

    Jacksonville NC
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    only a few parts are shared. 198 parts are harder to find than 225 or 231 parts. Not highly regarded by most. I had one in the 65 when I bought it. Gasket set was hard to come by but I found one.
     
  3. Jan 16, 2011
    Sparky74cj

    Sparky74cj Member

    Naches, Washington
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    Aug 7, 2009
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    As far as I have found so far! the bell housing bolt pattern is the same??? Yes/No
    And it looks like motor mounts are the same?
     
  4. Jan 16, 2011
    m38willys

    m38willys Jeep Vice Sponsor

    Jacksonville NC
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  5. Jan 16, 2011
    Sparky74cj

    Sparky74cj Member

    Naches, Washington
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    Aug 7, 2009
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    Thanks,
    I had searched and came up with blanks on this engine!
    This one has a T86 and a Spicer 18 behind it!
    SO I would just need a 225/231 bell housing to change the motor!
     
  6. Jan 16, 2011
    m38willys

    m38willys Jeep Vice Sponsor

    Jacksonville NC
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    I think so. If the motor mounts are in a different place on the 198 block you may need to change the location of the mounts on the frame as well.

    If you do a search, the 198 has been discussed here some. May save you some heartache or research time if you do.
     
  7. Jan 16, 2011
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member Sponsor

    Falcon, CO
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    The mounts are slightly off - different BH. If you swap for a 225/231 you need it from fan through BH. You will need to check the motor mount location as I have seen one that was the same and one off @ 1/2". I am not sure which is stock.
     
  8. Jan 16, 2011
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    Hi, I ran a 198 back in the 70's in my MB.
    Yep, the BH is the same as the 215 V8. I think that the motor mounts are the same, cam is the same, flywheel and crank shaft are different and I think that the exhaust manifolds will interchange but the 198's are a bit smaller Dia IIRC.
    The guy that helped me with mine said that the 198 is more responsive to performance upgrades than the 225.
    If you want to race it, you can do the upgrades in compression, cam, balance,etc., it can develop more HP than the 225 with the same upgrades but won't have the torque where you want it.
    It was a fun motor, considerably better on the road than the L134 and did quite well off road.
    They really do rev up quite nicely, didn't seem to mind 6 grand at all.
    Then again, the parts are harder to find, I think I would stick with the 225 and go from there.
     
  9. Jan 17, 2011
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Today, it's an oddball. Not a bad motor, but an oddball.

    If you find a Jeep with a 198 that runs well, you might buy it. If someone gave you the whole shebang from front to back, it might be worthwhile. It will be expensive to repair or rebuild though. But I certainly would not seek out the 198 or consider a 198 from a Buick donor for a swap.
     
  10. Jan 17, 2011
    w3srl

    w3srl Jeepless in Pittsburgh Staff Member Sponsor

    Pittsburgh, PA
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    There was quite a discussion about parts availability some year back, as I recall Kanter is/was one of the only source of rebuild parts. They have stuff for all the old/oddball engines but at a premium.
     
  11. Jan 17, 2011
    napaguy

    napaguy Banned

    goldendale wa
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    I would pass on the 198 and find a 225/231 and make your life easier...I
    Have a customer with a 198 and some parts are difficult/impossible to find. He says the only reason he used it was because back
    In the day it was the best running engine in the junkyard he could find
     
  12. Jan 18, 2011
    Sparky74cj

    Sparky74cj Member

    Naches, Washington
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    Thanks for the input! I just picked one up from a Cj2A with a T90 and S18 complete fan to output including t-case shifters, cross member and all.. a couple hundred bucks in running condition. I am putting it into my CJ2A setting on a CJ5 frame.
    I like oddballs.. I am finding parts are not as hard as some say to find. I did a little research on some hot rodders forums and find guys that really like these and say these can produce gobbs more HP than any other Buick V6 when built right! Summit racing has quite a bit of parts listed and I am finding common stuff that is interchangeable with the 225 V6 or from the 215 V8.. I am going to use it.. especially now that people tell me I should not! Thats motivation for me!
    Thanks
    Dave
     
  13. Jan 18, 2011
    napaguy

    napaguy Banned

    goldendale wa
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    Dave,
    To each their own and I wish you luck...I learned long ago while being oddball is cool it's alot harder on the wallet
     
  14. Jan 18, 2011
    Sparky74cj

    Sparky74cj Member

    Naches, Washington
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    Just for some info!
    The motor mounts are the same on my 63' 198 as a 225. I just measured and called Novak!
    Hi performance clutches are available from Summit racing!
     
  15. Mar 23, 2015
    Jonbbrew

    Jonbbrew Member

    Paso Robles, CA
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    Just found out I too have a 198...parts are hard to find but it runs good now.
     
  16. Mar 23, 2015
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor Sponsor

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    I've been playing with the BOP 215 V8s (a real close cousin to the 198 Fireball) for close to 40 years now. These two engines share most of the same architecture as they were designed in tandem. They have the same two "ear" bellhosing as well as the front cover and oil pump. This basic 215 was in production up through around 1999 as a Rover engine, only with displacement increases and improvements. There are still parts that interchange with your 198 V6 from at least '95 Discos, including the bellhousing pattern.
    I ran a '63 Buick 215 in my '65 Tux when I was in high school and college. It was great. I put a 198 in a friends M38 back in that same era, and it pulled quite well, especially compared to the tired flathead 134 that came out.
    -Donny
     
  17. Mar 23, 2015
    Rralphs

    Rralphs Old Member

    Nederland, Co
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    Was at the pull and pay last weekend there was `59 cj5 with what at first looked like a 225.
    The starter mounted upside down and the bell housing was not BOP. It had a 2gc (automatic choke).
     
  18. Apr 23, 2015
    Jonbbrew

    Jonbbrew Member

    Paso Robles, CA
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    does anyone know if the power steering pump/bracket is the same as a 215 or other motor? A struggle to find...
     
  19. Jun 26, 2016
    Jeeper Dave

    Jeeper Dave New Member

    Washington State
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    I have a willys cj5 with a 198 fireball v6 mated to a t98 transmission, and I emailed Novak and asking them what all I'd need to swap in a 225 v6. Long story short they told me that the 198 bellhousing would work with the 225 and that I'd need the 225 flywheel. I emailed them again explaining that I've read into and researched info on parts compatability between the 198 and 225 that gave me the impression that the 198 bellhousing was non compatible with the 225, they said it would definitely work... :n:
     
  20. Jun 26, 2016
    uncamonkey

    uncamonkey Member

    Greeley CO
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    225 and 198 bellhousings are not the same. They do share a lot of parts in the motors
     

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