1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Abrupt Clutch

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by David Allen, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. Jun 12, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Hello all. I bought this '69 CJ5 two years ago. The clutch engagement was a bit abrupt. As I was working on it for my oldest daughter I also noticed a TO bearing noise. I pulled the trans and transfer case down, replaced the clutch kit (plate, PP plate, TO bearing and put it back together. It immediatly broke. The TO bearing retainer broke off. I pulled it down again. found that the front bearing support is very close to the front support of a T10 Muncie. Three of the mount holes are the same and the 4th hole is about a half hole off. I hogged it out that it fit fine. It was still grabby on engagement, and the retainer broke again. I took it to a local shop and they found the throw out arm was causing a problem. I had them put in a new LUK clutch kit and arm and another Muncie retainer. I drove it home and parked it (almost a year). The clutch grabs like a bitch and scared off two buyers. When I had it all put in again I asked for the flywheel to be resurfaced the place that was supposed to do it broke their surfacer, so that didn't get done. Two questions now. Could it have the wrong TO bearing (I believe it is a diaphram PP) could LUK have sent me a TO for a finger PP? I also got a LUK throw out arm. Could the abrupt engagement be because of an uneven flywheel surface?
     
  2. Jun 12, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Airbender and interrupter of the light guard. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,118
    I found your thread from last year.Clutch Throw Out Guide, Or Support Tube?

    We are missing a lot of information here so you will likely get the wrong information if we don't do some ground work.

    So let's get pictures, in the linked thread you say you have a 4 speed. T18 or t98 the covers are the same casting so you can't go by the cover. Let's identify that and look at what people have done with recent conversations for clutch and clutch linkage.
    Let's also dig into the motor to verify what it is since that can affect the flywheel thickness and how everything lines up in the clutch.
     
  3. Jun 12, 2021
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,254
    Wow lots of clutch problems posted in the past few days.
    In order to provide good solid advice I agree we need know as much specific detail of the component assemblies as possible.
    Unless standard essentially no two clutches are alike.
    All vehicle assemblies must relate to some standard or very little can be known.
    Basically all deviation from known standards no matter how small can influence the clutch function and or control.
    But yes correct me if I am mistaken here but your LUK is a diaphragm type clutch. Is that correct ?
    A diaphragm type clutch must have a release bearing with a rounded bearing face.
    A flat faced bearing as is normal with three finger design clutches will not control diaphragm fingers properly.
    There a many things that can cause a clutch to malfunction.
    Let’s first take a look at the “clutch control” since it is the easiest to access and assess.
    The “clutch control” is everything between your shoe and the diaphragm fingers.
    If properly adjusted there should be 1/16 to 1/8” gap between release bearing face and the pressure plate fingers. That adjustment should provide about 1” of free travel at the pedal pad before engagement begins.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  4. Jun 12, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Airbender and interrupter of the light guard. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,118
    Does this jeep by chance have issues coasting?
    Can you put the Transmission in neutral and push it easily forward and back.

    I once had "clutch like" issues last year when my parking brake fell apart in the parking brake drum.

    I also had weird jerking when I repaired my Transmission and the needle bearings for the countershaft were not shimmed right.
     
  5. Jun 13, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Yes, it is a T98. At that time The problem was replacing a broken TO bearing guide. I found that the front support from a T10 Muncie was the same except one hole was 1/2 off. The first replacement broke the first time I drove it. I sent it to a repair shop where it broke again. Since I changed the lever to a LUK it has been good (thanks to everyone here), but the engagement is very abrupt. it seems to have normal travel but when it locks up it is bam we are going now. No matter how hard you try to feather the clutch out.
     
  6. Jun 13, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    The LUK clutch set I bought was the gold set. I didn't see it before my repair guy put it in. The set I put in had a diaphgram PP and the big head TO bearing, so I would guess the repair guy saw any difference between the two, but honestly I don't know. This Jeep runs the Dauntless V6 and a mechanical linkage. At one point I tried to put in a hydraulic release, but the way I tried wouldn't work because the master would sit too close to the headers. I see now I should have used a hanging pedal master. Do you think a hydro system would make it any easier for engagement? I replaced the front and rear trans bearings and seals along with the transfer case bearing and seals. They didn't look bad but since I had it apart I changed them. I put in new parking brake shoes and a cable. as it turns out '67, '68, and '69 CJ5 are the only years that are built with this set up, excluding the 4 speed T98 that this was changed to.
     
  7. Jun 13, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    sorry my picture down loads seem to be over 10mb. my pictures are on my phone. I tried to send them via my phone but all that went in was dark.
     
  8. Jun 14, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Airbender and interrupter of the light guard. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,118
    My wife typically sends me pictures in a text and that will compress it so she takes it out of her sent and posts it to her wives of ECJ5 support forums.

    I use Flickr to host without compression then I can choose the size when posting here.
     
  9. Jun 30, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    Ok. I sent the Jeep over for a new flywheel. Carolina Clutch, where I bought the LUK clutch set suggested the flywheel after I told them that it didn't get resurfaced when the clutch was changed. Because the shop that was to do the surfacing had a broken surface grinder. So I am having the flywheel replaced with a LUK part. After the shop pulled it apart they discovered the bearing retainer had broken again (3rd time), so I want to say don't use the Muncie T10 retainer even though it looks identical. I am guessing the tube on it is Brittle. I am currently having a part made, and hopefully this one wont break and the flywheel stops the grabbing.
     
  10. Jun 30, 2021
    David Allen

    David Allen New Member

    Carson City Nevada
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Messages:
    23
    As to the question of is the tranny a T98. Cast on the side of the case, drivers side as mounted, is a large T98, and some other things, Not on the top cover. I am really frustrated with this Jeep ( I know, it a jeep thing as my nephews say) I did take a pic of this, but it was very dark and not clear.
     
New Posts