1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

Roll Cage Install

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by erhuff, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Jan 1, 2017
    erhuff

    erhuff Western MA

    Western MA
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    190
    I recently purchased a "Family" style roll cage from Extreme Custom:

    CJ Family Roll Cage

    I had them make the cage out of 1.75x.120 tube instead of 2" and added a few extra tubes for strength. I am also going to tie the seats into the roll cage and plan on tying the cage into the frame as well.

    So far, I have spent a lot of time measuring, double checking my measurements, and practicing welding the tube. I am hoping to get a little insight from those with experience fabricating and welding on a few things.

    My current seat belt setup is like this:

    [​IMG]

    This has the seat belt almost inline with the seat back. With the new cage, the B Pillar tube is moving back ~3". I am curious if that will work ok with the seatbelt that far behind the seat. My guess is it will be fine as cars have more than 3" of adjustment and the seatbelt is always fixed.

    My second question related to this is I had bolted that seat belt unit through the OEM roll bar. Like this:

    [​IMG]

    Will this be ok or should I figure something else out to avoid drilling through the tubing?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2017
  2. Jan 1, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    7,482
    Ask Extreme Custom if you should drill through the tube.

    Weld a mounting tab to the tube.
     
  3. Jan 1, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,711
    Any through-bolt in a tube can benefit from having a welded-in sleeve to pass through, IMHO. Reduces the likelyhood of the bolt collapsing the tube.
     
  4. Jan 1, 2017
    Focker

    Focker That's a terrible idea...What time? Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    7,482
    That was my 3rd thought... Couldn't put it into words as good as you.
     
  5. Jan 1, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,711
    Aw, shucks.
    But you are able to think three thoughts to my one.:D
     
  6. Jan 1, 2017
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

    Silverton, OR
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    386
    You might also go to the NHRA's web site and read through the rules for roll bars and cages in Dragsters They are VERY safety oriented.

    My self I would NEVER drill into a tube meant to save my life all it does is create a failure point. They make Rollbar clamps that can be used to attach things like seat belt anchors and such.

    I also would not use a roll bar in a jeep that the mounting plates do not cover the whole top of the wheel house. It just spreads the load carrying ability to have it full width.
     
  7. Jan 1, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    No holes..........Weld a tab on to it.
     
  8. Jan 2, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,494
    On my 3 point seat belt the retractor is at the bottom of the seat base and there is a flat loop that the belt rides in where your retractor is mounted. The belt then goes down to the buckle.
     
  9. Jan 2, 2017
    erhuff

    erhuff Western MA

    Western MA
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    190
    Thanks all for the suggestions and pointers.

    After posting here, I did a little research before I saw any suggestions and found these:

    [​IMG]
    Poison Spyder makes them and they are designed to fit through 1.75 OD tubing. However, when all the responses you get say to not drill through, one should take note. So, I am looking at other options. I am not sure where these seatbelts were out of, but with the retractable box up at shoulder height it seems to make it a little more difficult, which is why I may get another set of seatbelts that puts that mechanism at the bottom.

    On a seperate note, I practiced notching and welding to ends of the cut tube. I ran out of Argon during this, so there is one bad (read: ugly) weld where I stopped halfway. Once the welding shop is open, I will get more gas.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I got a little overlap where I had stopped and started again once I changed the position of my hand. I will continue to practice and dial in the welder, but I think it is pretty close.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Jan 2, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,494
    Without shielding gas, you need to grind out the bad weld for sure. Turn up the heat and melt that stuff in when starting or stopping. That tube is thick enough where burn through will be minimal risk. Others will chime in who are better at this than me.

    As for seat belts, I bought brand new ones. They were very reasonable and made in USA. They came with hardware and instructions. Well worth it for me.

    I agree that drilling holes in tube for roll cages is bad, but if you use those inserts, I think you will be fine.
     
  11. Jan 2, 2017
    erhuff

    erhuff Western MA

    Western MA
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    190
    I will get more gas before I do any more welding.

    Thanks for the input. Who did you purchase through?
     
  12. Jan 2, 2017
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    USA
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,494
    I went with SeatBeltsPlus.com
    Good quality it seems. I have been using mine for a bit over 2 years.
     
  13. Jan 2, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    Mig?........Are you using 100% Argon or a CO2 mix? Looks like you could use a little more heat.......Is that a 110-115v only welder? If so , welding two pieces of .120 together may be right at it's welding / heat capacity???? with shielding gas.
    The tubing joint fit is the basis for the strength & integrity of that cage.
     
  14. Jan 2, 2017
    erhuff

    erhuff Western MA

    Western MA
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    190
    I am using the Hobart 140 Handler 115V with Argon/C02 mix and .30 wire. I think it is right at the limit, but the machine guide says it can do 1/4" without shielding gas and .35 wire. Should I try to increase the wire speed slightly?

    I may also wait for winter to subside a bit and bring the metal inside before I weld it to keep from welding it cold.

    I am experimenting with ways to get the coping just right. I used a program online to print out a template and then transferred that to the tube. I rough cut it with a (don't cringe...) sawzall and then cleaned it up with a die grinder which brought it right to the cut lines I from the template. I will most likely use a cut off wheel to rough it then the die grinder again to clean it up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  15. Jan 2, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,784
    Evan, with the flux core the wire burns hotter at the weld zone and probably would get you better penetration results on those two pieces...........But along with that comes a host of other issues when using the flux core wire.........notably appearance , spatter and the removal of the flux..............there is spray that helps the spatter and not to say that the flux core is not used as it is , but mostly outdoors where a shielding gas would get blown away much quicker from the weld zone.

    I would get yourself some scrap 1.75"x .120 wall tubing and play around first with the joint fitting & make sure the pieces at the joint have been ground clean with a 120 grit disc and then start trying different welding methods on the bench until you get the results you want.........things like preheating the joint, perhaps a higher wire feed speed or just the opposite by reducing travel speed.............and talk to your local welding shop about a Helium / Argon / Co2 mix which will get you increased temperature at the weld zone, the ambient temperature be it inside or out will also effect that weldability .............make sure you add a heat sink onto those short practice pieces to act as if it's a longer piece of tube as the short pieces well heat up quickly.........cut the joint apart and look at the penetration.............everything else looks good!
     
  16. Jan 2, 2017
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    exploring the...
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,738
    you can do tubing notches with a chop saw. Chop saw notching 101 (With pictures) - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
     
  17. Jan 2, 2017
    supertrooper

    supertrooper Member

    moreno valley, ca
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    624
    the charts on 110v machines are a little optimistic and i think 1/8"-3/16" max is more realistic for that machine. i bet there is fine print on the bottom of the chart that says multi pass welds are needed for 1/4". you could try preheating the joint before welding and grinding mill scale coating off and that should help. as for drilling holes in a roll cage, my opinion is that as long as the bolt hole is sleeved there shouldn't be any issues. its an old jeep, not a promod drag car going 200mph+.
     
  18. Jan 2, 2017
    erhuff

    erhuff Western MA

    Western MA
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    190
    Thanks everyone for the responses and the suggestions.

    I will plan on getting some tube to practice on and they just so happens to be a tubing dealer in my town. Granted, they did say they only sell wholesale, but I am hoping if I go there and ask really nicely in person, they might sell me some tubes. Otherwise, shipping is really pricey!

    Once this week is over I should be able to jump back on this and will put up any updates as soon as they happen.
     
New Posts