Here we go!!

Hello again everyone - I signed up on this site a few days ago, and have noticed one universal truth - Jeep folks LUV jeep pics! And I've bitten off one heckuva bite in this project....

Here's some pics of the 64 CJ5 I picked up at auction a few months ago, with intentions of building it with my kids. I grew up in a garage (my father was a mechanic) and have been looking for a project to do with them, and thought this would be one we could work on together and then enjoy together when it's completed.

Here's the first pile of parts I got to bring home:



Here's the original body that came with the Jeep:



Here's the engine that came with the parts pile, and the trans, and transfer and.... well, you get it.




It's an old F-head engine. I haven't dug into the trans and transfer to verify them. I'm going to be swapping them out soon.

Frame - currently has a 44 rear and 25 front - questions on that later in this post:



So that's what came with the project. I've since bought a "new" tub for it, as the original was rust held together by a few pieces of steel. here's a pic of the tub I bought.



Now you have a pretty good setup to where I am on the project - with one more purchase I made. I got a great deal on a 4.3 TBI I'm going to be installing. I'm going to put either a TH350 or 400 behind that w/ a GM transfer case, as well as possibly upgrading the axles.

I've found a complete truck (85 3/4 ton) for 600.00 that would have the rear ends/trans/transfer for it -but I'm wondering if the axles may be a bit of over kill. It's listed as a 10 bolt front/14 bolt rear - I think it would be a 44/60 with a TH400 trans - not sure about the transfer on that one.

Gettin' kind of long-winded here, but from what I've seen, you guys have done just about everything to a Jeep that can be done, and I'll thank you well in advance for all the answers!!!!

 

Patrick, I didn't read the instructions! Not too unusual for me to have to do it twice, tho. The pics are showing up now.

Thanks for the info on that - I was worried that it would be too big for the application. I also have a line on some scout axles - I believe that those are 44's and should be a bit narrower. Ever used those? And any suggestions on the transfer would be greatly appreciated.

 

Before you get started and spend a bunch of money, could you give us an idea of what you want the finished jeep to do? Building for a rock crawler is a lot different than for a weekiend run around town jeep.........

Nice project.

 

I would take lots of measurements! the 4.3 is a nice motor, but you might find it a tight fit with the t400, I am not sure of the t-case but on mine (74) you could run a chain down to rear axle. (extremely short drive shaft) A 64' would also be a couple inches shorter in front of the fire wall. engine should fit fine but the rest might not. If you want to switch to the GM drive train the axles will have to match. if you notice the front axle hogs head is on the wrong side. the gm tbi would be a great setup, i would go with it. the 3speed that is listed with the photos are also great, you can get the adapters for that trans pretty easy.

 

The bad thing about Scout front axles is that they were manufactured with 0 castor. The result is that they don't track very well on the road and tend to wander. The castor can be corrected but require cutting out the inner c, establishing the castor and re welding the tube to the c. Can be done but out of my reach personally. Here's a link to a CJ7 build that wrestled with that issue. http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/project-cj7/project-cj7-index.htm

 

aallison, I'm working toward a jeep that's somewhere in the middle of the parameters you laid out. While I don't want a hard-core rock crawler, I'd like to be able to take the rig out hunting, fishing & general exploring without worrying about snapping an axle the first time I slip a tire. Speaking of tires, I'm thinking something along the 33-ish size would be good - a tire to gain some ground clearance but not break the bank.

iagmc - I'm pretty stoked about the 4.3. I was looking for something in the 200-250HP range that would start and run reliably - this seemed to suit the bill. And from everything I've read, you can make the 4.3 pretty salty without spending the college funds....
Good information on the th400. I'm not sure I want to stay with the 3 speed - would like to go automatic so the wife can wheel it from time to time without shredding clutches, u-joints, etc. I say wife - but I'm probably worse about dropping the clutch when I'm in a hurry....
It's been a while since I've worked on them, but isn't the th350 a little shorter?

LarryD - good info on the scout axles. I might be able to pull of the camber change, but I also might have one setting at 4 degrees and the other at 9.25!! I think I'll explore other options there. The rear axle in this jeep is a dana 44, and I could live with that - it's the front end I'm concerned about. Do/did later model CJ's run a larger axle that might be an easier swap?

Thanks for the information everyone!

 

You can build a later model Dana 30 with disc brakes to be pretty near as strong as a D44. If you're thinking of 33" tires a Dana 30 will do youy good. Plus you can get the benefit of factory disc brakes.

 

I would take lots of measurements. you have the shortest frame cj5. I think you might be able to get by with the t350 but you need to decide on the tcase, get the measurement with the adapters, and then find what custom shafts are going to cost. Then find the short water pump (elec is shortest) on the 4.3 (same as the v8) and see if you have enough room. (most likely you will need pusher elec fans on the front of radiator) This will give you the option of moving the engine forward if needed to make things fit. After amc bought the jeeps the frames got longer, so it would be easier to do.
Everything is possible on a jeep if you have time/ know how/ money/ fab skills. You can have the 1st three but without the last it will cost you more and lose interest in the project faster. You absolutely need to be able to think way out of the box.

 

Wagoners up until about 86 were equipped with Dana 44's narrow track, those are wider than the CJ'5's but not to wide. I believe they are 6 bolt hubs so if you go this route you may want to source a front and rear axle so the wheels match. You may be able to find a front axle already set up with disk brakes if you are thinking of going that route.

 

I did 4.3 in 54 3b stock water pump just change out to a s-10 radiator and slant it and use electric fans to cool
its tight but it fits just fine


cj5 has a bigger engine compartment then the 3b so you'll be good there auto trans will be tight may need to get a shorter tail and custom drive shafts just be sure to have at least 20 inches or more for drive shaft
I used a sm465 4 speed alot shorter but very bulky and used the stock shafts for now but will be upgraded in time

 

http://www.earlycj5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80244

check out my build, i'm building mine to do the same type of wheeling you are. you will find great advice on this site. i knew nothing about jeeps (except how to break them) until i came to this site, and glad i did. you can build a stout jeep by using existing jeep parts. i pulled a dana 30 from a 78 cj5. came with discs and it only ran me 125 bux. look for a dana 44 from a 1970-71, they came flanged and ran 30 splines. find a SM465 4 speed trans and a dana 18 trx case and you will have a solid ride. you came to the right place! welcome.

 

I agree with 1fastsedan. Unless you do not want a stick no matter what, I would go with an sm465 and mate it to your t18 t-case. The granny gear will really help with the wheelin. The 4.3 is a great motor with really good power and will work really well with the 465. For axles, I actually went with toyota axles in my build and LOVE with way it has turned out so far. (My build has photos if you are curious) If you are wanting to stick with u-joints such as the dana44, I would go find you some narrow track waggoneer axles and get both the front and rear. I know the wagoneers had an offset rear 44 but not quite sure of the years, you'll have to google that. Also, depending on just how difficult of trails you want to run, I would have to agree also with a previous comment about upgrading your front end to a dana 30. 33's are about max for a D30 but with carful driving and being smart about it, they can survive with 35's. My buddy runs a wide track dana 30 in his CJ7 with 35's and only broke the front once by trying to pull a stump out on asphault, backwards. Good luck on the build.

 

Castor can be corrected w/ an angled shim. A Dana 30 swap requires the same correction. Also, '72CJ5, a T18 is a B-W 4 speed transmission. The TC being discussed is a Dana/Spicer model 18 or D18.:v6:

 

Thanks for the information everyone! I'm in a bit of a holding pattern right now looking for axles. Craigslist has been THE place to find parts - but it's all a matter of timing, as you all know....

I've started the body work on the "new" tub and have found and INCREDIBLE amount of bondo. And there's no reason for it to be there! I've ground/sandblasted 1/4" to 1/2" out of the entire body to find solid steel under it - go figure. Apparently someone thought that it was easier to fill than to hammer the body a little, and they must've not had a grinder of any sort - welds were the high point they filled to.

1fastsedan - great lookin' build you have going there! I'm thinking about swinging the pedals from the top and adding the MC to the firewall in mine. Thanks for the info on the Dana 30 - If I can't find the old wagoneer 44's I'm gonna go that way.

And the more I look at my tape measure the more I'm thinking that it'll have to be a manual trans in this beast. Again, I'll be shopping craigslist for the needed items - but it's paid off so far!

I'll get some pics posted of the progress as soon as I can.

Thanks for the info again!

 

Also, '72CJ5, a T18 is a B-W 4 speed transmission. The TC being discussed is a Dana/Spicer model 18 or D18.:v6:[/QUOTE]

Yes, thank you for the correction. I know the difference but was really tired when I posted last night haha. Thank you for clearing that up so there was no confusion.

 

I thought I might add my 2 cents. I like your idea of the 4.3. Next to running a V8 I think that is the best route. If you are kind of wanting to go with the automatic my suggestion is to run a th350 with a dana 18/20 adapter. I would then run a AMC era CJ Grill. The later 76' to 86' grill will give you a bunch more room in the engine compartment. I would then shove your 4.3 V6 up nice and close to the rad and put the TH350 behind it. This will give you plenty of room for a real driveshaft. You will still want to run a cv double cardian rear shaft though, especially if you end up with a centered axle and transfer case. With that adapter you can run a Dana 18 and keep the offset rear 44 and then maybe go with a later narrow or wide track Dana 30 out of a CJ. If you end up with different axles that might have a centered rear you can swap to a Dana 20 transfer case. It gives the most flexibility for what you might find. For what you have in mind I don't see any use of the GM truck stuff. It is all to big and bulky. Dana 30 and 44 are very adequate for 33s and I have seen them hold up to 35s and abuse with no trouble as well. Good luck on the project and enjoy the build time with the kids.
Greg

 

Here's some pics of the tub I'm working up to go on the CJ.

Up in the air.


Right door opening:


Right side:


I'll have the tub repaired soon - having trouble finding the patch panel for the right side cowl that includes the radius bends - I might have to cut that out of the old tub and see how that works. Anyone know of a supply for the complete piece?

Greg - I looked at your build and gotta tell ya - I'm impressed! Great work! Do you know what the dimensions of a TJ front axle are? I've located a dana 30 locally that came out of a TJ - complete with discs and steering linkage. If it's only a matter of moving the spring perches, I'm gonna grab it up and swap everything out to 4.11 or so gears. The CJ already has a 44 in the rear, but has 5.38 gears - a little steep for the driveline I'm putting together, I think.

I'm just about resigned to using a SM465 trans - it looks pretty bullet proof for this application, and finding the parts to hook it up to a 4.3 ought to be gravy - also, not having to spend $500 for adapters makes me feel, well, pleasant.

 

if you use the dana 18 you will need a adapter I used the novak and if you fit eng in right you will be able to use the orig drive shafts cross member will need a small modification

 

looks dusty!! great work. http://www.jeeptech.com/axle/d30.html here is your answer on the Tj Dana 30. it uses a different bolt pattern so you might want to look for a 72-75 dana 30 (bolt in) or a 77-78 (move perches, 3" wider).