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Oiling question for a F134

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Taper, Apr 15, 2006.

  1. Apr 15, 2006
    Taper

    Taper New Member

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    Mar 23, 2006
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    hi there,, The PO of my 65 took the original oil filter canister off and put om a spin-on type. I'd like to go back to the original, but have a question or 2...
    First off, one oil line from the filter goes down into the timing cover...and the other is just dangling with a bolt in the end to what I presume to be...stopping the oil from leaking out. Not hooked to anything. I see no fitting on the block to put this back the right way. So the questions are this:
    1. Is this setup damaging the engine? Or, is the oil pressure from the pump adequate to lube the moving parts.
    2: Can anyone please describe where the mystery second line is supposed to go? A picture would be awesome....worth a thousand waords as they say..:rofl:

    Once again...any input from those that have been there-done that would be greatly appreciated.

    Happy Easter,
    Mike in KC
     
    Taper, Apr 15, 2006
    #1
  2. Apr 15, 2006
    1963cj5

    1963cj5 Member

    N.C.
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    Your second line should go along side the fuel/vac pump it is I believe 1/8 inch plug..on the left side looking down at it,actualy between the fuel/vac pump and the front motor mount plate..Bottom line is it is not curculating but wont hurt anything, there is an internal oil system in these..Alot of these were add on anyhow..I dont have a pic for you but it should not be hard to find the plug..I have also had f-head and l-head engines that had the bottom oil line run all the way to the oil pressure indicator by the rear drivers side back of the block tied in with a tee !!!
     
    1963cj5, Apr 15, 2006
    #2
  3. Apr 15, 2006
    Taper

    Taper New Member

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    OK...i think i see what you are describing...but the PO put a square head brass plug in that location. Where would a person find a fitting so I can place the oil line correctly...any ideas?

    Thanks for the reply...
     
    Taper, Apr 15, 2006
    #3
  4. Apr 15, 2006
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Parts store should have what you need, it's just a standard flare fitting, same as brake fittings. Nothing special about the fittings. I'm thinking it's a 5/16" flare size. Do you have a canister filter to replace the other one with?
     
    Glenn, Apr 15, 2006
    #4
  5. Apr 15, 2006
    1963cj5

    1963cj5 Member

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    Dont want to dispute what another member said BUT...I replaced mine from www.debellajeepparts.com he has oil line sets for sale I restored quite a few M-MODEL Jeeps and still in the process..I removed the plug and got a male to compression fitting and used copper line 1/8 inch and put it on my 63 cj5 I am working on.. I looked at my f-head 65 cj5 I just recently bought and it has 1/8 inch oil lines on it..I am going to remove the UPSIDE DOWN filter on it and replace it with a canister type..The fittings on the canister are also 1/8..Good Luck...Hope I shed a little light on your Project HAPPY EASTER............
     
    1963cj5, Apr 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Apr 16, 2006
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    The pipe thread in the block is indeed 1/8", and I think the canister is also, just don't remember offhand. If you used 1/8" tubing that stuff is tiny. You sure about that? Tubing goes by outside OD.
     
    Glenn, Apr 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Dec 21, 2008
    sherlockh

    sherlockh New Member

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    I too have a question about the spin-on filter on my '65 CJ5. The PO purchased it new, but I don't know if the spin-on was factory equipment or an add-on the purchaser. If it was an add-on, it was a poor idea as it is obvious that with the spin-on mounted inlet end down, oil pours out of it all over the engine when the filter is replaced. What scares me is that the printing on the filter is right side up when the filter is mounted upside down - could this be the factory setup? I'm trying to build this CJ5 as close to factory original as possible, but I also don't want to give the engine an external oil bath every time I change the filter. Is the older canister style filter appropriate for this engine, and would it fit the bracketry for the spin-on filter? Any enlightenment will be much appreciated.
     
    sherlockh, Dec 21, 2008
    #7
  8. Dec 21, 2008
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Just a note to those who have or are thinking of installing a spin-on filter-

    The stock oil canister is not a "full flow" setup, it is a "bypass" design with an intentionally restrictive outlet in order to prevent loss of pressure in the oil gallery & consequently the bearings.

    If you use a spin-on filter you must use eithetrf a filter or a base that has a flow restricter built in.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    H.
     
    Howard Eisenhauer, Dec 21, 2008
    #8
  9. Dec 21, 2008
    sherlockh

    sherlockh New Member

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    Thanks, Howard. I just did a complete (and I do mean complete) tear-down of the engine, and found crank main and rod journals within factory spec and pretty. Rings on all 4 cylinders were broken, but damage occurred on only #1 cyl - the rest were within new tolerance. I guess that means the spin-on filter was factory original, and I'd better learn to live with it. Does that mean I'll be power washing the engine after every oil change? - cause I don't know how I can capture all the oil in that upside down filter when the seal breaks as I unscrew it.
    Clyde
     
    sherlockh, Dec 21, 2008
    #9
  10. Dec 21, 2008
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    if it were me iw ould either-

    a) Find a way to mount the filter the other way up, i.e. 'down"

    or

    b) Punch a hole it the top of the filter before un-screwing it to let as much oil as possible drain out.

    If it is a factory piece you'd think they would have added drain there someplace. :rofl:

    H.
     
    Howard Eisenhauer, Dec 21, 2008
    #10
  11. Dec 21, 2008
    Homebrew2

    Homebrew2 Member

    Dunlap, CA
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    Homebrew2, Dec 21, 2008
    #11
  12. Dec 21, 2008
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    the line that goes from the filter to the timing cover is the oiler for the timing gears. Your gears aren't being oiled.
    The other that is dangleing and blocked off is the inlet side (with pressure to it) from the oil pump gallery on the drivers side of the engine, below the fuel pump.
     
    1960willyscj5, Dec 21, 2008
    #12
  13. Dec 27, 2008
    sherlockh

    sherlockh New Member

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    Howard- I just disassembled the filter mount today and got a look at its innards. One line (I'm thinking the inlet) goes from the lower block just under the fuel pump to the center fitting on the cartridge mount. This fitting is basically a pipe nipple with a bore of about 3/16" which accepts the threaded part of the filter. Inside the filter inlet chamber is a flat plate with a 3/32" hole in it (a restrictor possibly?). The other line goes from the side of the filter mount to fitting on the cam gear case. This line connects to the filter mount at what is basically a drain hole. I guess from what I read in this thread, it meets the criteria for being an acceptable filter plumbing job - or am I missing something here. The original filter was a NAPA #, so I checked my local NAPA store to find out if they had a current upgrade - he said "No - it's still the same product and number and they had 3 in stock!" Someone must still be using this upside - down mount because the writing on the filter is still upside-down. Another question - my Jeep owners manual says use SAE 30 or 10W-30 motor oil; Ludel says use 15W-40 oil. I had planned on using Rotella 30 WT oil, but all my dealer carries is 5W-40 or 15W-40 in Rotella. What's your preference?
    Clyde
     
    sherlockh, Dec 27, 2008
    #13
  14. Dec 28, 2008
    EricM

    EricM Active Member

    Southern California
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    On my '64, it uses a wix # 51050 spin on. The filter is upside down. As long as I let the engine sit for a while, I can unscrew the filter, and I don't get much oil draining out of the filter as I remove it.
     
    EricM, Dec 28, 2008
    #14
  15. Dec 28, 2008
    jeeper50

    jeeper50 jeeps 'till I die

    Spanish Fort. AL
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    The F head has a timing gear oil spray nozzle that sprays the timing gears just as they start to mesh. It threads into the block. The oil line attached to the timing cover is simply the oil filter oil return line( filtered oil flows back into the crankcase at that point.)
    I have my engine apart for an overhaul I'll see if I have a pic.

    More info here; http://www.film.queensu.ca/cJ3B/Engine/Rebuild7.html
     
    jeeper50, Dec 28, 2008
    #15
  16. Dec 28, 2008
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    The plumbing sounds correct to me, the "in" side does come from the hole down by the fuel pump, the return does go to the timing gear cover.

    Incidentally, the gears don't rely on this return line for oiling, there is a a little spray doohickey screwed into the end of the oil gallery on the front of the block that sprays the gears with oil.

    Re. Oil- this is something that pops up once a year or so & always produces a couple of pages of posts and a few days worth of entertainment that leads to inevitable conclusion(s) that-

    -Rotella is Good

    -Dino oil is Good

    -Synthetic is Good

    -10W-30 is Good

    -5w-40 is Good (in hot climates)

    -15W-40 is Good (in cold climates)

    -Straight 30 weight oil is Good

    -Any oil containing the numbers 5, 10, 15, 30, 40 or 3.1415927 plus the letter 'W", the word "'straight", the word "blend" the word "synthetic"or the term "rendered hog drippins" is Good.

    -Teflon additives are Good

    -Teflon additives are Bad.

    -Fram oil filters are Bad.

    -You wouldn't be having these problems if you replaced your F4 with a V6



    My take is-

    a) As long as you have good oil pressure that's what counts.

    b) It's a bypass oil system- no matter how magical the oil you put in it's gonna get cruddy in quick order & do nasty things to the engine innards anyhow. Change your oil (whatever it is) regularly, that's regularly as in "OFTEN".

    c) Throw a rare-earth magnet in the pan somewheres near where the oil pickup sits. Maybe two or three. Why? I own stock in a rare-earth magnet factory :twisted:


    Tonk's engine is still sitting on the stand after being re-built & before that it was running through oil so fast I basically was just throwing in whatever was handy secure in the knowledge that whatever it was it wasn't going to be in there long enough to do any harm anyhow.:rofl:

    So, what will I be using? I'll probably go with the Rotella, it does seem to be a closer formulation to what oil was "back in the day". Now, obviously modern oil has some real improvements over "back in the day" oils but these are not high performance engines, they are not chock-full of modern miracle materials that dissolve at the sight of non-special additive lubricants. As for synthetics they certainly are superior lubricants but I'm just not sure that, with a regular (i.e "OFTEN") oil change schedule that synthetic's main advantages, it's resistance to long term breakdown or high temperature conditions, are going to come into play in an F4 and be worth the $$$.


    H.
     
    Howard Eisenhauer, Dec 28, 2008
    #16
  17. Dec 28, 2008
    sherlockh

    sherlockh New Member

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    OmG, Howard - decisions, decisions, decisions. With a menu like that I won't be ready to purchase oil until we are drilling for it off the Florida Coast. I put 30 wt. Rotella in the engine of the Jeep I worked up for my son a few years ago. He doesn't run it all that much in a year, but the engine is still fine, so I think that's my choice again for the current project. Thanks for the help.
    Clyde
     
    sherlockh, Dec 28, 2008
    #17
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