NT swap in on a WT CJ

Hey all
I know I have talked about this in the past but need to talk again. I chatted with someone today that told me you could just bolt in, with no mods, a NT axle in place of a WT axle. And most of the time there would be no rubbing. Anyone have any experience with this. I have a 82 CJ with a dana 30/amc20 running 33x12.5x15 SSR's.

 

Depends on the year of the NT axles. There were NTs that would bolt in. 76 was the split for the wider rear frame. 82 was the split to the WT axles? But depending on back spacing of your wheels with the 33s they will more than likely rub the front springs when turning. They will probably also rub the rear inner fenders when stuffed.

 

I'm with Warloch on this. Plus, the shock mounts are different. The shock mounts would have to move to the top of the frame to clear the tires with NT axles. Far from a bolt-in modification, but the rears would be easier than the fronts.

You're looking for an easy way to upgrade your M20 and get lower (higher numerically) gears? I would guess that the Scout rear axle is pretty close to the right width, and that's a Dana 44. The Wagoneer axles are a couple inches wider than what you ahve now.

 

thanks guys. Will probly just regear my axles. I got some 3.54 on carriers for free and I have a front install kit. Just need the back and someone to do it lol.

 

CJ5's never got the WT axles,supposedly the last few did,my '83 came factory with NT axles(I'm the second owner and a museum owned it from 1983-2003).I swapped in a set of NT axles out of a '75 CJ5.I had to weld on a new set of rear spring perches and I used a set of '79 u-bolt plates which had shock mount studs and sway bar studs on them.I had to change to a different steering stabilizer clamp(I could have used the '83 stabilizer bracket but I didn't realize it was sandwiched with the u-bolt plate until after I had torqued the u-bolts and I didn't want to take it apart).I'm building a set of WT axles for it now.With my revolver shackles and F250 shock mounts and 33" travel Rancho 9000 shocks I am actually hitting the shocks on the NT axle knuckles!!

 

I don't now if this will help but heres a write up about swapping from NT to WT axles ="http://s241.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/Kman1983/?action=view&current=FallPhotosOct2007014.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/Kman1983/FallPhotosOct2007014.jpg" border="0" alt="45MB3"></a> If you already have WT axles I'd keep them.

 

Hmmmnnnn... that didn't work... lets see... try this http://www.offroaders.com/jeepfan/arbwidetrak.htm

 

I qualified that the narrow track from the 76 up would fit, bolt in, I stand by that.


We went through this one other time. I don't understand what you mean by the shock mounts are different? The rears on the intermediates are outside the frame. On the late model CJ they are inside the frame. Is that what you mean? The fronts are essentially the same aren't they?

From my intermediate;


From my late;

 

Guess I should have added, the intermediate is a NT the late is a WT.

 

Wow, I'm almost confused with this thread.

CJ axle widths:
start to '71 have about ~52" wms (wheel mounting surface) to wms.
'72-'83 have about ~55" wms to wms
'84-'86 have about ~58" wms to wms also know as a wider track CJ. Believe these were widened because of the "rollover" problem.

In '76 the frame changed to the wider rear as mentioned above. There was also a spring changed this year to 2"w (wide) front and 2.5"w rear spring (CJ-5 & 7), '75 and earlier had 1.75"w springs front and rear and a straight frame rails. All CJs have a 27.5" center mounting pad to center of mounting pad on the front axle.

So with this theory, '76-'86 axles should swap back and forth with spring pads and widths. Obviously the tie rod and draglink won't work but IIRC the shocks mount off the spring mounts and is similar frame mounts.

Cherokees NT & WT (fullsize) have different mounting pads, 31.5 center to center. These mounting pads require the springs to be outboard on the front to work, or the long side to be cut down 4" (custom axles anyone).
WT came in Cherokees run in the ~65 wms to wms range.
NT came in all Wagoners & some Cherokees have ~61 wms to wms.
The rear would also require new spring pads and shock mounts to fit under a CJ.

example of a Waggy front under a '65 CJ (would be similar for all years)

 

I was thinking the shock mounts on the WT are like the bottom one in this picture (the black one is the Ford truck mount):



from this page http://www.in2jeep.com/fordshockmt.htm

Your top mounts are different from the picture, and your shocks might clear the tires if you sub'd NT axles. I don't think the mounts in the picture above would clear though.

Your WT axles look like they have the same spring placement as the NT axles... does seem to contradict what I thought (and was agreeing with Warloch on) that the WT axles use a different spring placement and hangers that outboard the springs.

 

Didn't think they went to those mounts until the YJ. Now I understand. BTW, my late is a 79 frame with the WT axle swapped in. The 85 may very well be different.

I could really use a pair like the ones in the bottom picture timgr posted if anyone has some. You just gave me a great idea how to make my rear shock mounts for my YJ spring conversion.

But even if it did have those shock mounts it would still bolt in. The ears on the axle for shock mount are in line with the shock mount on the spring pad. The difference in shock length would be ~ 2.5" or less.

 

Kman,
I'm curious why you seem to have taken a jeep that was in a museum for 20 years, and mod it. Brings a tear to my eye, it does. By the time you get to be my age you begin to realize almost nothing lasts for 20 years. Not giving you a hard time, just wonderin'. I'll bet its a good lookin jeep!

 

It was owned by a museum not a display unit.For years it pulled a wagon around the Shelburne museum in Vermont taking people to different parts of the museum grounds.Later in its life they swapped on a plow from another Jeep they had.When I bought it in 2003 it was 20 years old and had 33,999.7 original miles on it.They gave me the original window sticker from Willy Racine Jeep in Burlington VT.Just over $7,000. new!

 

The shock mounts in timgr's link can be found on late '70s vintage Waggys (pulled a set off a '75), not sure about after the switch in '80.

 

Cj, post 76, wide and narrow track axles have the same spring mounting widths. You would have to change the upper shock mount and the spring plate for the front axle as they changed the mounting location and swaybar hookup. The shock mounts in timgr's link are the stock wide track upper mounts. The ford are the hot ticket if you need longer travel shocks. Only problem is they are ford scripted and require grinding off as to not curse the jeep.