304 - R.I.P. (Rest In Pieces)

Well, as you might have figured out from packrat2A's poll, I'm in the business of looking for a replacement engine for the ol' 73.
I was tooling down the road after work, enjoying the warm sunshine as you can only do in a topless Jeep. Wasn't running hard, only doing about 60mph (2800rpm), when suddenly there was the sound of internal metal flying apart, Jeep lost power (duh!), and I was surrounded by the 'blue smokescreen of death'. It must have been quite impressive for anybody following me!R)
Called the wife to tell her, her comment was "Oh, thank goodness. It was only the Jeep!" (She doesn't get it, R)yet!) Had the boy come and pick me up and we were headed home when I figured I'd see if packrat2A was home. Lucky me, he was, we went and trailered the ol' girl home, BBQ'ed some burgers, and now today I'm getting ready to dig in and see what I have left.
I'll get some pics of what I find inside.

 

Well, it could have been much worse. Whence you get inside the engine, report the findings. Any decision on what will be going back in?

 

Good to hear you made it out OK. Don't feel bad, my wife doesn't get it either.

I voted for 360 since you have all the accessories that will work. Cheaper than a 401 and with a good cam much more power than a 304. Plus, you can upgrade to edelbrock heads in the future if you so choose.

I'm going from 258 to 360 swap here sometime in the future once I figure out if my V8 needs to be bored or not. I have a pretty strict Jeep allowance so that hampers my plans greatly. Again, she doesn't get it, yet.

I have reved my 258 a few times and yet to hear parts flying around under the hood. Figure I will drive it till I have the 360 ready to go.

High5

 

you need some help tearing into it, give me a shout!


BTW, I got my Jeep tore into today, and the outer axle shaft is hosed. So I'm tearing the Scout apart to try and use the outer axle in the Jeep!

 

Welp, started tearing into it... just started with the top end while all the oil is draining. Got a late start, had a meeting this A.M. ,then Honey-Do's first.
Pushrods all straight, rockers seem OK, will drop the pan tomorrow and see what the bottom end looks like. Gonna pull passenger side fender off too, already have drivers side off. Just for ease of working, I'll probably want to pull the whole front apart... right?
The PO sure loved that orange Hi-temp silicone! Used it everywhere, valve covers, intake, valley pan, I'm surprised he didn't try to seal the headers with it!
I'll start taking pics tomorrow and posting them. Now I'm gonna start looking online to see if i can find prices for a 360 (or 401, but I don't wanna make packrat2A jealous!R))

 

Oh trust me, I'll be givin' ya a call... especially when it's time to actually pull that sucker out. (Is it just as easy to pull motor & tranny together?)
Hope the Scout axle works for you. Gotta have the Jeep ready for next weekend.
BTW, thought you were working on a closet remodel today???R)

 

``I'll probably want to pull the whole front apart... right?``

Yes you are right, makes the job far more easier this way. Also yes, you can take the engine, tranny and t-case out in one long and heavy piece, just watch out for the control of the t-case hitting the firewall.


Bob in Sherbrooke

 

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/car/368428509.html

this one screams 'BUY ME'

http://images.craigslist.org/0102090103100104112007070797ea243914e03c6d4200923a.jpg

as for the closet, well,,aahh,,uumm...had to go to my Gma's 88th Bday party yesterday! Yea, thats it! R)

And the Jeep semed like so much more fun to work on!

 

Last year for a factory 401 was 1978, so I'd look reeeaal close at that one if you wanted a 401 engine. Plus, $500 for a driving Wag with a 401 seems like too good a deal... maybe not. Remember that a 360 and 401 look identical from the top - you have to check for the big "401" cast into the block by the DS motor mount.

 

assuming this is a 401, what else would you need to install it in a CJ-5?
Both Jeeps have headers, intake, 4bbl carb, ect.
But you said once (that I saw) that the 360 needed a 360 flywheel, you can't use a 304 flywheel. Is there anything else we would need to install a 401 (of any year) specific to that engine?
This is just general research, I can't swing getting this one, but I am researching for when I can!

 

Well, got the bottom off... I had what would be refered to as 'A Catastrophic Failure'.
Looks like I fell victim to poor oiling. So, following is alist of what I found...

• oil pan has holes in it.
• crank is in bad shape. Bearings spun, and crank beat up.
• 3 crank rods in pieces in oil pan.
• At least 2 pistons toasted, maybe 3.
• oil pickup tube trashed.
• chunk knocked out of piston skirt of block.

Looks like I'll be looking for a 360 now. So, did the 360 have the same oiling issues as the 304? Also, I might have a line on a 360 out of a Matador, as long as I get the balancer (just went brain dead on what it's really called.) will it work as well as one from a Waggy? I mean, an AMC 360, is an AMC 360... right?
I know I would have the option of using some of the Waggy parts in the Jeep, but the wife isn't thrilled with having 'another Jeep' sitting around. (She doesn't have 'The Jeep Thing' ... yet.)
Well, time to start looking for a motor.

 

Dude- get the waggy! I'll store it over here and buy parts off ya! I've been looking for one.....
aw heck, I'll call ya!

 

You need a 401 flywheel. All the Gen 2 and Gen 3 AMC V8s (maybe Gen 1 too - don't know) are externally balanced, so you'll need the displacement-specific pulley, flywheel or flex plate for any change of displacement.

You can get the cast factory part (used in AMC cars) or a billet style (spendy), both new aftermarket. Finding a used one might be difficult.

Otherwise it's a drop in. All your 304 externals will bolt up to a 401. You have to use the 401 crank pulley/balancer (externally balanced!), so it's easiest to take all the 401 bits and use them.

 

Yep. It's the same timing cover, oil routing, etc. A 360 block is cast for larger diameter bores, otherwise it's the same as a 304.

Yes. You mean the harmonic balancer? I'd worry about pulley alignment with a crank pulley from a car. You'll need a 360 flywheel.

It's always better to get the whole car, if you can swing it. No need to be too worried about stripping everything from the Wagoneer... post on http://www.ifsja.org/forums and somebody local might be willing to take the carcass away.

BTW if that '79 Wagon isn't really a 401, I'd point it out to the owner, and offer something much, much lower.

 

Looks like I'll have someplace to store it!R)
I think I'll go the Waggy route, that way I've got the whole thing, plus, if packrat2a leaves me anything, I would have 'upgrade' parts in the future. Then, when I'm ready to get rid of the carcass I will post it.
Also, I have heard that the car engines are not the same power as a 'truck' engine, even though they're the same motor. (I know the 'Big Three' do that.)
So, now to clean up and sell my boat so I can find a donor rig.

(Tim, good point & idea on that Waggy that's listed as a 401!)

 

you'll also need the drivers side exhaust manifold off of the 304, it is unique to the cj v8's. It has the outlet in a different position to clear the steering.
-Dante

 

Shouldn't be a problem whatever motor I find, I have fender-well headers already.

 

AFAIK not with AMC/Jeep. You need to be careful about the externals (manifolds, pulleys, brackets, etc.) but otherwise the Jeep engines are simply AMC motors.

Also, be careful about the oil pump cover. I know that the earliest 304s could dent the outside of the pressure relief valve with the pumpkin and freeze it. There were a couple of band-aid kits to fix this from AMC, but eventually they changed the cover design to keep it out of the way. If your 304 has the late cover and the 360 doesn't, you need to either put a 3/8" thick shim under the bump stop on the passenger side, or else use the cover from your 304.

AMC also supplied a kit to remote mount the oil filter, using parts from a RHD Gremlin or Matador. That's what I put on my '73, so I could skip the bump stop shim.

 

Also, I recall that manifold bolt sizes and accessory bracket bolt sizes can be different - you might have to enlarge the holes in these to fit the bolts from a later 360.

 

Well, chalk another one up for the PO, he installed a remote filter kit already.

Manifold = Intake manifold? I might be able to do that if needed, I own power tools!:twisted:R)