SOA vs SUA

No, I don't feel like I'm getting picked on or anything... it's easy for me to get carried away with the idea of a big lift and 35's so it's kinda making me think twice about it. Oh and Tim, I'll bet part of the problem (I didn't even think of it until now... I've been kinda busy with finals, and my brain hasn't been working properly) is the fact that the entire time I've been driving it, it's had a blown head gasket and 7 BIG cracks in the exhaust manifold (working on fixing it now.) The motor isn't to bad, there's no piston slap or rod knock... but I'll bet the bad head gasket and swiss cheese exhaust manifold are the reason it takes so much throttle to go 60... it never really felt down on power but then again I never had anything to compare it too, and a ~2200 lb vehicle really doesn't need much power anyway (Again I feel like a duma$$ for just now thinking of this... ). I got the head gasket in, but I've gotta wait for the exhaust. I'd like to find a stock manifold so I can use my current exhaust (but they're $300 from Auto Zone) so I might buy a set of Hedman's for it.

Didn't someone on here say something like:
"A Jeep is a Jeep, but an old Jeep is a money sucking pit of frustration that will send you running to this cyber world day after day"

Truer words were never spoken.

 

You should be able to find a good cheap exhaust manifold on Ebay. There are usually several of them. I got an excellent one on there about a year and a half ago for $27 plus shipping. I don't want to sound like I am "piling on" about the rpm's but you should be able to cruise all day long at 3 thousand rpm's. All the older vehicles cruised at higher rpm's then they do nowdays. Back then the speed limits were just as high as now, at least before the gas shortage lowered the limit to 55. There were also less cops (if you know what I mean). The direct drive fans also contribute to quite a bit of noise at road speeds. Remember there is a point of no return so to speak when doing gearing. Too tall gears will work/stress the engine harder and actually cause you to need more throttle/more gas to maintain a certain speed. A vacuum gauge or manifold pressure gauge will verify this. I should tell you about the 62 CJ5 with a 4 banger/Dana 18 I once had. That one really screamed at 55 at wide open throttle =)

 

Marc said it.

 

I owned a 80' CJ5 and had a local 4x4 shop do a spring over for me back in the early 90's. I ran 35" TSL sx's and it looked just like I wanted it too.
Looks and driving charecteristics are very different things when it comes to SOA.
I became an expert at changing universal joints and actually bought them 10 at a time.Broken spring perches were common so get some ladder bars for spring wrap.Steering was interesting to say the least,it would turn left(into oncoming traffic) on spring compression and turn right when the springs were unloaded.4 high is now useless so 4 low is your only chioce.Top end on the highway with stock gears and the inline 6 is now going to be 63 MPH exactly.The engine lugs at that speed and you always feel as if you need to drop into a lower gear.
Straight line mud runs are great,anything hard in that mud and refer to the universal joint comment although they are fun to change eyeball deep in mud. Rocks?see universal joint comments above.
The rolling resistance of 35" tires is light years away from 31"s, brakes should be your 1st concern your stock brakes WILL NOT DO please take this from the voice of experence.
Aside all of that the SOA was great!did I mention how cool it looked?

 

Cracked exhaust manifold is a problem. Too much oxygen behind the exhaust valves leads to burnt valves. Have you checked compression yet?

You may want to switch to the 81 and later manifolds - they will be easier to find. Try posting on your local Jeep/4WD forum; that's how I got mine. Or maybe Nick has a suggestion since you're in Oregon.

I have a manifold that came off my truck, but it would need to be surfaced, and it has a suspicious void in it that may or may not be a crack. Plus it's on the wrong side of the country... I'm pretty sure that all the cast iron 258/232 <edit EXHAUST! - intakes are different> manifolds of the early design (where the two manifolds bolt together) are the same. I know I put one from an earlier Rambler car on my CJ-6 when I cracked the original at the quarter car wash - fit perfectly.

 

I would suggest doing a SOA. Look for a used set of wrangler springs. They will sit flat and provide a softer ride and should provide enough lift for the 35's. I did this on my flat fender with waggy axles. I picked up a set of springs for 80 bucks. I ended up with crossover steering and 4 wheel disc brakes also. Fab your own spring perches and hangers and save some bucks.

 

So if I understand you correctly, SOA looks cool and I should do it because it looks cool, right? R) Actually that's exactly what I was wondering, if broken spring perches, and worn out u-joints were abundant with SOA. I'm starting to agree with everyone that SUA and
33's are a better way to go... I just wanted everyone's input before I made up my mind.

BTW... still looking for an exhaust manifold if anyone has one. I don't really trust e-bay anymore (I got burneda couple times so...). Actually I'd really like to hold the manifold in my hand before I buy it, but if anyone on here who lives across the country has one they'd sell, I'd trust them if they said it was good.

Thanks.......Wil.

I'm just a guy with a Jeep, too much free time, to big of an imagination, and not enough money.

 

Those are not common problems, you should not be having to purchase 10 ujoints at a time. Or having spring perches breaking off. Not sure who did the work but you might wanna have a reputable shop look at it and see what it would take to cure these problems. IMO it sounds like you need a track bar or a better one if you already have one.

 

I did do a compression check, even with a blown head gasket the lowest cylinder was at 160 psi (150 is minimum according to my manual). I also checked the valves while I had the head off. I filled the combustion chambers with alcohol and none poured past the valves, so I think it it must have cracked fairly recently, and I just caught it in time! It probably happened the last time I took it up to Brown's Camp, there were a lot of big puddles and I couldn't resist blasting through them and hot manifold + cold water...

 

Neptco,
Thanks that was many years and many jeeps ago.
I like CJ5wil was looking for "cheap" lift with lots of tire. I realize that the lift was a botched job and wanted to pass my experences along.I learned alot with that truck and one night ate a saab convertable because I could not stop it nobody was hurt but I realized that just because something "looks"cool any modifications need to make it more capable not less so.
Rockcrawling was not even on the radar then and suspensions are much much more technical to our benifit and SOA can be done right but it can't be done right cheap and that was the reason for my post.
DHBIII

 

i dont think anyone even mentioned that fact that even if you stay SUA and you run a 35" tire on those stock axles (didnt see what axles you currently have) you are wheeling on borrowed time... esp if you are or ever put lockers F/R. I really hate seeing guys waste their money building a weak axle ...for example the guys that build their D30's in their TJ's ...wasted money for lockers/gears/shafts ect. just to break and buy a another axle. the high steer kit alone will cost as much as a good 4" SUA lift. i would agree with others stay SUA with 33"s. some really good avice on here sounds like they have you going in the right direction. here is mine SUA w/36"s ...good luck

 

What axles are you running? I've got 30 front, 44 rear. I've always heard the Dana 30 will handle 35's (and with the 258 there's not a lot of power behind it.) If I'm wrong what axle's would be a good swap for it? 44 in the front, or narrowed 60's?

Wil....

 

D44F/Toy rear... i will add cromolly shafts next year some time. there is many different opinions on the 30's ...alot of guys will tell you tha have ran their 30's locked on 35" boggers w/no problems ...
you can get a D44 front pretty cheap and the width will be fine. you will want to convert it to 5 lug to match your rear. if i were going to the trouble to replace the axle i would build it (locker/gears) before putting it under.

another option is stay with what you have... add the springs (stay SUA) and get a 34x12.50 MT... TRXUS one thats a really good off road tire. you wont have the clearance issues that you would with a taller tire and gearing may be a little better.

here is some axle info i saved off of a SOA write up i found on the net:

I know for sure, you want an 1987-1991 Grand waggy. They had Dana 44's front & rear without the vacuum disconnect. I think the 86's also fall in this catagory.

There are prior years that also had front & rear D44's - but the fronts had the vacuum disconnect. You don't want the vacuum disconnect axle.

I'm running a pair of D44's from an 89.
The widths on these are perfect for the YJ. The front D44 is about 1" wider than the D30 and the rear is about 2" narrower than the D35.

76-77 (earlier works too) Ford Bronco - HP D44/Ford 9" - perfect width
77-78 Ford F150 - HP D44/Ford 9" - full width but can be cut down if desired
77-79 Ford F250 - HP D44/Ford 9" - full width but can be cut down and swapped to 5-6 lugs, if desired. plus they have spring perches which makes trimming easier.
__________________

 

Ford axles are ALL Drivers drop. F250s came with a 8Lug HP44 and D60 Full Float in the rear. The 78/79 Bronco axles come with cast on C-Wedges and are undesirable. Pre 77 F150 HP44 is more desirable because they have weld on C-Wedges and can be removed fairly easily. I'm detubing/retubing a HP44 for passenger drop.

83-84 Grand Waggy is Vacuum Disco. 81-91 are drivers drop and 80 - earlier are passenger drop.

79-85 Toyota axles Solid Front/Rear are 55inches and the front is Passenger drop. 86-94 Toyota IFS Front/Solid rear are 60inches.

I'm SOA and will never do anything but SOA. I dont think I would want to run the stock width axles on a 5 tho.

 

I haven't done a SOA but my 66 already had it done. I have no idea what Jeeps drive like with the SUA so I have nothing to compare it to. I do like having the SOA.