ITS HOME! Now for the work to begin

For those who may remember me, my '70 V6 CJ5 has been out of service for going on 3 years now.

Well, it's home. And now it's time for the work to begin.

I have the ability to obtain the following equipment locally:

SM420 transmission
Rube Adapter
D300 TCase
GM 14-bolt full float rear (discs)
D44 open-knuckle front (discs)

And all for a decent price. All I need to provide is gears for the front axle (maybe a carrier, but I'm hoping not), and calipers and brackets for the rear discs.

It looks like the SM420 + adapter + D300 tcase will be 14.9" long, which if memory serves is 0.4" longer than the SM420 + adapter + D18 tcase setup I was originally planning on.

I'm wondering if 14.9" is "too long" even if I change the pinion angle slightly on the new rear axle and put in a CV driveshaft, and also if the D300 will even work out in that setup.

I already have a rebuilt 0-mile "big" D18 with the 4" locating bore that I was planning on using, but considering I'm also wanting to full float the rear, and that kit costs about as much as all the gear I listed above, I've been thinking about swapping everything under the jeep except the engine. It would be nice to widen things up a bit as well. I was already planning on swapping the D27 with a 30 or 44.

Does anyone have any experience with a D300 (preferably with a SM420) in an early 5? Any advice you could give would be very helpful.

Thanks!

 

I'm guessing this would work... I mean, the axle swaps should be basically a no-brainer, I'll need to make some modifications to handle the disc brakes... but will the 14.9" long combo of the trans/adapt/tcase be too long?

I'll be adding a little lift, so i'm worried that with the longer package, short wheelbase, and a little more lift (plus taller tires), am I just wasting my time because even a CV driveshaft would bind up from the angle?

I have a lead on a used T14 that will fit my dauntless-equipped rig, and have also been thinking about just going with a SM420 setup, like the one in the tech article here that's so popular.

I want to go bigger and a little wider, and really the only way I can do that easily is moving to a center-drop rear...

Please some advice.

 

Those are some big axles your thinking of swapping in, what size tires are you planning on? If it's anything over 35-37's, I would consider stretching the wheelbase. Just by moving the spring hangers to the outer ends of the frame rails, I got my wheelbase to 90 inches. Keep in mind that the 14 bolt is physically huge, so you lose a lot of ground clearance unless you jump up in tire size.

I would take some measurements of axle width and whatnot and decide just how big you want to go. FWIW a wagoneer rear D44 has an offset differential that would work with the D18.

 

Foster,

Aye... the 14-bolt is a huge axle indeed. So is the D44HD I would be putting up front in this situation.

I want to go to 35's, and no larger (for now, but that may change in the future).

How much wider is the waggy D44 rear than the one that came stock with my CJ?

Originally (years ago) when I thought of swapping the axles, it was because I wanted a center-drop diff so I could use something other than the D18, because I hadn't invested the $$$ to rebuild my D18 yet at that point. Then when I started thinking along the lines of a center-drop diff, I started thinking it'd be nice to widen the stance a little bit for some extra stability. Then I started thinking about YJ 2.5-wide springs.

I've never thought about lengthening the wheelbase, primarily because it's my understanding that if you go too far back, you have to cut into the sheetmetal to clear the tire. With yours set to 90" did you have to cut anything? What size tires are you running?

Part of what I like about the CJ5 is the shorter wheelbase. I feel it adds some challenge to the lines I have to take on the trail. Also, I like the narrow stance alot, because I can squeeze into some areas where a wider vehicle would have to have insane flex to clear the obstacles I squeeze between. But in this case, I want the wider stance primarily for on-road stability.

I've also been planning an axle swap for the front end because it's my beleif that I have something busted in the front axle, and would like an open-knuckle front to get some more turning radius. I've found it's really tough to find a front open-knuckle in the same width as the stock, though I must admit I've not looked at any D30's and I know some folks have swapped those into their early CJ's. I was looking for a D44 to match my rear.

Since I've found the tech article for converting the stock bellcrank to a draglink/tierod setup with heim joints, I don't think I'd have to make major changes to the steering setup anymore, since manual steering does not bother me at all (though it probably will with 35's!)

I've found someone semi-local that has a T14 of the type I need to bolt directly to my D18, so if I can get in touch with that guy and get a good price, that's most likely what I will do in the short term.

I laid under the jeep a while last night and contemplated all the work I've been talking about doing here, and it's going to be a LOT of work, and I knew that... My primary goal right now is just to get the thing going again... But "The Price Is Right" for all that gear listed above.

Anyhow, time's a wastin', and I gotta get to work.

 

with that big corporate 14 in the rear the axle pinion yoke is going to be further from axle centerline further complicaing your short rear driveline dilemna.

JB

 

If you want to keep it simple and cost effective, swap in a D30 (it'll add 3 inches of width if you use a narrow track) use spacers on the rear 44 to bring the wheels out to match the front. Put in the SM420, it's a great tranny. I can't see any good reason to use the axles you mentioned above unless you plan on some big power V8 conversion too. Often times the "great deal" on a pile of parts turns out to be a waste of time and $ later. Don't ask me how I know!

 

Jeeptech.com says the NT (narrow track) Wagoneers fronts are 58" and the rears are 59", but I think that's wrong. Only the J-trucks are wider in the rear than in the front (so they can fit a sheet of plywood between the wheelwells). I can check my FSM when I get home.

DanStew is installing Wagoneer axles. I'd think they'd work well for a CJ if you didn't need to worry too much about how much tire was hanging out past the wheelwell. The NT CJ rear is 50.5" and WT is 54.5". The Wagons are 44s front and rear 1974 or later. In '80 they changed to driver-side pumpkin on the front. All after '74 are open knuckle and front disks, 11" drum rear (though different from the CJ 11s), 6 lug on 5.5" circle IIRC.

The stock gear ratios are 2.73, 3.31, 3.54, 3.83 and 4.09 depending on year and equipment. The 4.09s were optional with the 258 and T18A; not common.

The FSJ rear axles that came with the Dana 20 (manual transmisson) and the QuadraTrac (automatic) both were offset, though the QT is offset more (3"? 5"? something like that).

 

Ok Posimoto, I won't ask... but I can guess!

Those are all valid concerns. Also, 181jeep is right. I don't know how much alignment difference there is on the 14 bolt rear, and I don't know that the pinion angle will be the biggest worry there.

The other thing I'm growing more and more concerned about is my thoughts of converting to YJ springs. While I was laying under the jeep last night, I was really focusing on this one item. Has anyone put wider springs on their early CJ?

The thing I keep having to tell myself while I do this is... "I don't want a monster rig, I want something that's very streetable, and mildly better than stock on the trail."

I worry that the 14 bolt rear will steal alot of power from my 225 as well. I have no plans to go towards a V8, I like my short nose, thanks! I really don't want to lengthen the wheelbase much at all, if I can help it.

Also today I learned both these axles have 8 on 6.5 chevy lug patterns, which means all new rims with the all new tires I'd need to make up for the lower ratio gears... More hidden added costs.

When it comes right down to it, I'm itching to get the rig running again, asap, for as little money as possible. I need to send my motorcycle to the shop, and public transportation is the pits up here. At least back home if I had to go from the house into "downtown" it was a 10 minute bicycle ride. That's not the case in the Dallas area...

I found someone somewhat nearby that has a 225 version of the T14, but he doesn't think he wants to part it out. He has a whole frame, engine, driveline, and all... If something was wrong with my frame or if I needed a new engine, I'd take him up on the $500 for the whole lot, but I just can't justify storing those extra bits until I need them. If I could just get the transmission from him, I have new bearings and seals, so I could do a quick rebuild on the bearings and small parts, and probably have myself a good transmission for a while.


On the flipside, the guy with all the equipment I listed above is very local, will deliver (hard to move a SM420 on a motorcycle), and for about $700 I could have an SM420 and adapter to mate to my "fresh" rebuilt D18, and retain stock everywhere else.

Also, I'm gonna start looking for the parts to do the heim joint steering conversion. So much slop. I don't think I have the stock setup... I have two rods that go from the bellcrank to the steering knuckles. With the ~2" shackle lift the PO put on, the angles of these rods is rather extreme, and makes for "fun driving", if you call jumping from lane to lane at random "fun".

I think if I just fix what's broke on the D27 (shaft or wheel joint, haven't determined yet) and put in the SM420 & D18 and convert the steering, I could be very happy with this jeep for a long while.

What about springover conversion using the stock springs? How will this affect road manners?

Thanks you guys for all your comments and advice. This is exactly the sort of stuff I need to know.

 

I just finished my rear end swap to a dana 60 out of a j10 and also went with yj springs. Ive got a dana 44 for the front and hope to have it done by june if everything goes right. I also have a spring over. If you are going to go this way you need to get all your parts and do a lot of research. Good luck. I myself would go for the sm420 set up. It was the best mod that ive done...

 

Jim,

Could you explain how you did your YJ spring conversion? Do you have any pics?

I've been wondering if it would be sufficient to add spacers to the sides of the stock spring hangers to attatch the shackles to, or if the wider springs and longer shackle bolts would give enough leverage to distort the spring hangers and bind the bolts.

I've pretty much decided at this point not to do the D300 + axles. I'll stick with what I've got, and start thinking about rebuilding my D27 or swapping in a D30.

Does anyone know what the WMS-WMS dimension difference between the narrow-track D30 and the stock '70 D44 rear is? I'd like to price some spacers as well.

I've been contemplating the YJ spring conversion since well before I bought the CJ, just because there seems to be a better selection of aftermarket springs and shackles for the YJ. A concern I've had is that if I switch to YJ springs, and retain a spring-under configuration , will the articulation suffer due to the narrower stock axles not having as much leverage? Or are the early CJ frame rails narrow enough to counteract this?

There's something like 11 or 13 leafs in my front suspension. I figure this has alot to do with the minute flex I get on this truck.

Big plans, but I'm taking it one baby step at a time. Primarily I need to get it back on the road. All else can wait until later.

 

Interesting... Thanks for the info, Lynn.

Spent more time under the jeep tonight, pulled off the bellhousing and took the pressure plate off. I'll need a new pressure plate and clutch, new throwout bearing, might as well replace the pivot bushing and arm while I'm at it, and I already knew I was going to need a pilot bushing since the T14 mainshaft was free floating after it detonated.

Does anyone make a real pilot bearing for our engine? Or is a bushing my only hope?

Also, what clutch/plate do you guys recommend? I was looking at a centerforce unit, Summit has a set for about $240.

One more thing... What do you guys think about the Hedman 69420 headers? I've heard of folks running the pace setters, but I've always liked Hedman's headers in everything I've put them on.

Oh gosh, and another... Found Holley makes a remanufactured carb, 2 bbl, but I dunno if it bolts right up. Shortly before my drivetrain went up in smoke, I had rebuilt the Rochester 2-whatever that came with the jeep, and was never happy with it, probably due to my lack of experience in rebuilding carbs. Since it's been sitting so long, I'd expect it needs another rebuild. Should I go with the holley rebuilt, or go ahead and get a 4 bbl with the offy manifold? I happen to have a new-in-box edelbrock 650cfm, which is probably so much overkill for this engine I'd never get the mixture dialled in.

If I was to go with a 4bbl, it'd be for smoother power band, overall power increase, and better fuel economy for those rare times I can lift my lead foot off the floorboard. I've read of people having problems venting the bowls on the 225 with aftermarket carbs, so I dunno what to think at this point.

 

I left the rear springs in the same location on the frame. I will have to outboard the fronts. The yj springs are the same length as the stock ones. Its an easy install. Im hoping to get really good flex. I bought 4 inch lift springs from a friend and the seem to give plenty of lift to run just about any size tire im looking at. Im running 35s now but will proabaly go up to 37s in the future. Sorry no pictures now but will have some when finished.

 

Awesome Lynn, thanks for the Header Buddy tip. (no pun intended) That's awesome. Wish I had found those sooner!

Rochester 2G, that's the one. Has anyone used one of the (i forget the technical name) fuel-injected carbs? You know the ones, they have the injectors inside the barrels of the carb. Seems something like that would be optimal offroad, and I also seem to recall a local guy from my old jeep club had such a setup on his 231 in his CJ3A. I'll have to ask him about it, I reckon. May add more complication than I like, since I tend to prefer a "Fuel and coil/dist power" simplicity in my engine bays.

The reason I ask about pilot bearings is that I was looking for a new bushing (I bought one years ago, but used it as a spacer in a project about 6 months ago... lol) and AutoZone lists a bearing, but some folks interchange the term bearing and bushing depending on where they're from and/or what kind of load it'll be taking. I figure a real bearing will last longer, and would be stronger under loads.

Well, the guy who wants to sell me the axles is kinda putting some pressure on me... he's had trouble selling all that gear, and he really needs to get the money badly. He's even offered to come over and look at my rig himself to see where the major logistical issues would be.

I reminded him I haven't welded anything in 13 years, so I'd probably outsource to someone who could do the job right the first time, which adds more cost to the equation. Also reminded him that his YJ has 12.4" more wheelbase than my CJ, and showed him a pic of the rear driveshaft from the SM420 swap article you guys have here, just to show him how extreme the angle would be with an extra 1/2" of transfer case and an "unknown" difference for the position and offset of the pinion yoke on the 14 Bolt. He knows I don't want to cut my tub, so adding wheelbase plus the larger tires (since I would want 35's with the 4.10 ratio) is pretty much out of the question.


I imagine widening the axles I already have would be a major pain, because I'd have to run custom made axle shafts, which would be pretty expensive? Keep in mind, if I keep the stock D44, I will eventually be putting in the warn full float kit.

Thanks again for all the advice, guys.

 

Lynn, sorry I usually forget to search on things before I ask...

I've decided that I'll stick with the 2G for now, and will convert to LPG in the future.

 

currently running the headman header/muffler combo. not a lot of internal noise w/hard top off, but wear ear plugs w/hard top on.