Rod bolt caps

So I recently had to pull my crank and when I put it back I followed the FSM specs.

I tightened the cap screws to 18lbs I think it was and used the correct fasteners. I did not use any loctite or anything.

Here is the thing - I don't trust it at all and I let the distributor gear turn on me. So the questions are - do I need to worry about a rod coming loose or does the factory specs work on the older engines? Is it worth to drop the crank down, with the engine in the Jeep, and get the distro right? The timing is way off but I do know how to set it out of position.

Second question - where can I get the screws that go in the brake and clutch pedal head? I have no idea how I managed it but I lost mine. Just the right size would be ok if anyone knows it.

 

Those are flat head screws you can get them from MSC, Fastenal, McMaster Carr anywhere that sells industrial fasteners.

 

WHAT ENGINE? and why on earth would you need to do anything with the crank to change the timing. The distributor is geared to the CAM not the CRANK. You need to get a proper manual for what ever engine you have in your jeep and figure out how to set the distributor in place properly.

And I don't think 18ft lbs is enough torque on rod bolts. the specs in 1965 for a 3/8" rod bolt were 35-40ftlbs

 

Everything I've seen says 35-45 lbs. for the rod bolts. Main caps are 65-75.

 

I am using the FSM. I am not sure what would be more proper. It is not really a very good source but the specs should be correct.

Now the reason you would move the crank and not the cam. The crank can be dropped down about a half an inch until it clears the cam gear. That can be done with the engine in the Jeep and all the front assembly in place. All you need to remove is the oil pan. To turn the the camshaft you need to remove the everything off the front of the engine, support the engine somehow (because the front mounts are in the assembly you must remove), remove the radiator and the front grille.

But anyway, the engine is a F Head and you have to move the crank to get it lined up with the gear. Never touched the cam, it moved out of place when I lifted the crank. But what I should say is moving the crank is the easiest way, just loosen the bolts and the crank drops down some and you turn it into the right position. I don't really have to move it, I can just make myself some new timing marks but I was just considering it.

Not sure its worth the trouble.

I did whatever the spec in the FSM says but it still did not seem like enough. 18 is just what I remembered, I checked the book and yes it was 35-45lbs.
I think I did 35lbs and that does not feel like enough. I will double check it.

But what I was really asking is - do yall put anything like loctite on when yall do it? I did not use anything, but starting second guessing it afterwards. It would be easy to add it if it seems like a good idea.

The pan is leaking anyway, so I think I will drop it. Check the bolts just to be sure and if I can set that timing either by lowering the crank or maybe messing with the cam. I will have a look and see which seems easier.

 

Do you know what size by any chance? I measure the width to get the length but I can't seem to find a bolt the right diameter. The hole in the pedals are threaded also

I am talking about the arm the pedal slides into. My question was not worded well at all. So I want to know is what bolt goes through the arm where the pedal arm slides into?

 

I believe the OEM rod cap nuts originally had sheet metal jam nuts backing them up.

If you bumped the camshaft enough to shift the distributor timing, then I'm wondering if you jumped a tooth on the cam gear and altered the valve timing too?

 

I am still unclear as to why you would pull the crank to do anything with timing. I assume this engine is out of the vehicle? It would not really be possible to pull the crank with it still bolted to the flywheel. The crank also goes through the timing cover, so you would need to pull that anyway. The front of the crank behind the crank gear may also have shims to set the thrust clearance. The fiber and steel timing gears have 2 dots that must be aligned. None of this is relevant for IGNITION timing adjustment.

Actually If you have a real Field Service Manual or even a reproduction one that covers "universal" jeeps, you're going to have all the info you need. Some of the reproduction pics can be grainy, but they give you the idea.

The clutch/brake arm bolt and thread size is probably 5/16-18 or 5/16 24. Go to a hardware store and buy 4 bolts. 2 will probably fit, unless like in my case they are stripped and then you drill and tap to the next size while filing out the pedal groove to fit the bigger bolt.

 

PeteL - I have definitely messed up the timing. The front and rear seals were leaking really bad so I pulled the engine and swapped them. I just flipped the engine over lifted the crank and slipped them in then let the crank back down.

But in the process got the timing out somehow. I did not realize it until I put the engine back in the Jeep.

47v6 - I forgot about the dang flywheel. You are right, I would have to pull all the front stuff for sure and then either pull the engine or slide it forward. It would be easier to pull the engine for sure.

"None of this is relevant for IGNITION timing adjustment."

This comment does not make sense to me. Those dots are there to make sure the cam and crankshaft are lined up correctly right? I am assuming I have those one or more teeth out and that is why I can't get the timing to turn enough now.

I have set the timing in a lot of vehicles with no timing marks at all so I do understand the idea. Like I said I can make my own marks if I need to and just move the timing on the distro. But its not really my style.

I am using the FSM (Field Service Manual ) and I am going to be honest here. It is pretty close to useless other than specs for torque on nuts and clearances. It does not really say much about this subject at all.

Either way you are definitely right, it is a pull the engine thing to fix it right. I don't think I want to do that right now. I think the next time I pull it, that will be the time I swap to the 4.3

I will try the bolts and see what I find. Seems to be an odd size. Might be stripped

 

Ok. the gears that are on the crank and the cam need to be facing each other with the dots in alignment. This is to make sure your VALVE timing is correct. This is to make sure that when the pistons are at a certain point the valves are opening or closing where they need to be for the proper compression/combustion/exhaust of the fuel air mixture.

That is separate from your IGNITION timing. That is set at the distributor by turning the entire housing one way or the other to retard or advance timing respective to top dead center of the stroke of the piston in the cylinder. The distributor is run from your oil pump using a spline in the distributor shaft that should only fit ONE way into the oil pump due to the spline being fatter on one side than the other unless someone has filed it flat.

If your VALVE timing is off, your IGNITION timing will probably not ever be correct in a stock engine.

If I understand correctly, your VALVE timing is off. Your crank gear and the fiber gear do not have the dots facing one another? If that is the case, you will need to set that correctly before you do anything else. After you set that correctly, you can set your ignition timing. You do not need to take out the engine. You do not need to pull the crank. All you need to do is pull off the timing cover and set the valve timing. You may need to pull the fiber or steel crank gear in order to do it. Only then can you set ignition timing.

 

The distributor timing is as 47v6 describes.

It may also bear mention, that the oil-pump/distributor drive is geared into the camshaft, and as such will indeed change if the cam is moved out of time.
Or if the oil pump is removed and replaced, it may shift to different tooth on the cam.

 

When messing around with my "Garage Art " 134 "F head" I heard a noise in the motor when I was turning it over with no plugs or oil in the motor. I pulled the timing I cover off, and noticed that when I got to a point it would jump ahead. I looked closely at the timing gear and noticed that the top of some of the teeth were thinner than the rest. on number one, intake the fiber gear had worn thinner, causing a click in the cam gear. I replaced the fiber timing gear and it is all good now. I hope this helps.

 

I get all that. I am fairly certain the marks no longer line up - because the timing on my distributor is not where it should be. My engine fires when the engine is not lined up with the timing marks. I get all that and I also know I can just draw myself new timing marks.

In this particular engine with my valve timing off I am finding it very hard to get the ignition timing correct, mostly because the condensor side of the distributor is hiting the block.

In most engine I can set the ignition timing no matter what is going on wth the alignment of the distributor.

So I was thinking I would just draw new timing marks and live with it but I have not yet got them drawn on yet. It was just a thought to drop the crank and line those dots up but the flywheel is a problem - as you pointed out.

But I did not realize I could set it without pulling the engine. Now that you have pointed that out, that is what I will try. My raditor is leaking so this is a perfect time to take the front end stuff off and get it right. I have it close now, close enough for the Jeep to run - but not quite right and I want things right.

I will have a look and ask if I have any questions - thanks for taking the time to reply and explaining it

 

That very well might. I have been trying to work out how it got off and I did hear a clicking noise just before this happened.