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Another rear fuel tank question...

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by FinoCJ, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. Jul 19, 2015
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Looks like I might have found some salvage options for rear fuel tank set-up. Are there any pros and cons to a 71 rear tank set-up (with filler neck above right rear taillight) as opposed to a 76 and later set up? I think the 71 still uses a vented cap (like an underseat tank) whereas the later model would have a vent tube? Anything else to consider? Both should have fuel return lines I think, and I would either have to put the 71 filler cap where the reverse light is (and move the light up), or hopefully slight modification to filler nect and put the filler cap above the reverse light. In the long run, I'd like to set-up a switch to use both tanks if needed, but initially would probably just run the rear. For hard to describe reasons, I like the 71 as that would be 'more correct'...whatever that really means. My Jan 70 production date is almost at the end of the underseat tank set-up so the 71 set-up is pretty close. But in reality I need to use whatever would be the best solution in terms of functionality.

    thanks
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  2. Jul 20, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If you want to use new parts, the '76-on configuration has better parts availability than the earlier type. A '70 or '71 tank should be basically the same as a '72, which is capable of vapor recovery. It will have a fuel return nipple in the sending unit, which you can use or cap. It should also have a vapor recovery nipple at each of its four top corners. Vapor recovery for this is kind of odd, with a bunch of hoses from the tank to an expansion tank under the rear fender, and a single hose to the engine. If you use a vented cap, you can cap the vapor recovery nipples.

    The '76-on style uses the skid plate to support the tank, and the tank is strapped to the skid. the intermediate style supports the tank with brackets and the skid plate is optional.

    There is no source for the filler neck, skid plate and tank brackets other than a wreck, which I believe is the main problem with using the earlier style for a conversion. If you can get these parts from a donor, you should be fine. You may have trouble finding a vented cap for this application.
     
  3. Jul 20, 2015
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor

    Châtillon en...
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    I have a 71 with the rear tank, and in my opinion it is better to have the tank under the seat! If I could I'll put a tank under the seat so all would work easily.
    I believe that the underseat tank is smaller, but at least there is not so much problems than with this chainsawguy rear tank.
     
  4. Jul 20, 2015
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    I'm running the 76 style tank in my 70.
    I have the return line hooked up, but the vent lines are capped. THe only thing I don't like about the set up is getting the tank and skid plate assembly up in the frame...it BARELY fits, and it's a real b***h getting it into place.
    I've got pics if you want to see them, or if you're ever down this way, give me a holler and you're welcome to crawl under mine and look at it.
     
  5. Jul 20, 2015
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    As timgr said, the filler neck and hose are un-obtainable. I used a length of radiator hose for the neck to tank connection, but it isn't really rated for fuel. I eventually went with a custom tank and ditched the early rear tank. The '71 tank would be for leaded fuel, hence the larger filler neck and hose. That's why you can't buy replacement hose or filler necks.
     
  6. Jul 20, 2015
    sawilly

    sawilly Member

    Salmon Arm BC
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    Jul 10, 2012
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    Crown carries the 2 5/8 " filler hose 70 -75 [TABLE="class: datatable, width: 490, align: center"]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Fuel Tank Filler Hose
    Replaces Part #: J0992965

    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 200, align: left"]In Stock: 508 Available
    Quantity: Quantity in Cart: none
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="colspan: 2, align: left"][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
     
  7. Jul 20, 2015
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    Yep the filler hose has been available for years you just have to look for it.
    There is nothing wrong with the 71 rear tank setup other than parts availability. the tank fits in a 71 frame fine but the frame has a little different braketry than the earlier models, not that hard to adapt though.
     
  8. Jul 20, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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  9. Jul 20, 2015
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    If you find a good hose supply shop you can get rubber hose rated to carry fuel. That's what I bought last time I did this install on the CJ6.

    +5 gallons, some weight on the rear for a better ride, and some additional interior storage for tools and parts = big win for the rear tank for me.
     
  10. Jul 20, 2015
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Yup - that's exactly what I am looking for - really could use some weight on the rear axle (and some lockers) so this should help. Haven't decided completely whether I would keep the underseat tank for spare or use the space for storage. Sometimes its a long way between fuel stops in the western CO and moab areas. Either way it will be good and as well as reduce the fuel smell in the cab - although that has been a lot better with the new sending unit and o-ring.

    Thanks all for the info - I will need to make sure I can get all the bracketry and filler neck etc if I go the 71 route. I originally called the salvage as they had a complete set-up from a 78 as I was intending to go that route, but when he said he had a 71 I thought that might be interesting.
     
  11. Jul 20, 2015
    sdcj6

    sdcj6 Sponsor

    San Diego
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    I would use the later tank because it has a smaller diameter fill connection. The large connector on the 71 is a little harder to install. If you need the fill neck the smaller diameter is easier to find and might hold the gas station fill nozzle for hands off filling. My 71 will not hold the fill nozzle at all.
     
  12. Jul 27, 2015
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Well I got my hands on a complete rear tank set-up - its from a 71 so it has the separate mounting system/brackets for the tank and skid...but I got all the brackets and such.

    [​IMG]

    Some questions though...

    1) What is the best way to plug the 2 vent lines that would have gone to the charcoal canister?

    2) I like having a vapor return from pump which the salvaged sending unit does not have. In the long term will probably just replace the unit with a vapor return unit, but wondering if I could use one of the charcoal vents that would otherwise be plugged as a vapor return.

    3) So the filler neck is quite interesting...looks like the tank vent hose connects into the large filler neck hose. I disconnected the vent hose from the neck at the nipple, but Before I start tearing it apart anymore, wondering how the nipple is mounted into the filler hose? The large filler house has a puncture in it down near the tank connection...trying to figure out how to replace without damaging the metal portion of the neck etc.

    [​IMG]

    4) Finally, aesthetics...where to mount the filler neck? The late 71 had it on the right rear above the taillight, but that would be exactly where my reverse light is. Put the filler in place of the reverse light? Move the reverse light up to the 71 location. Custom fit filler hoses (assuming I can replace the originals on the neck) and put the filler on the right quarter panel about where the spare tire mount would have been?

    many thanks for the feedback
     
  13. Jul 27, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Plug the vent lines with a loop-back.

    That tank looks like the one from my '75, so I'd speculate it's a later replacement. The earlier tanks have the vent lines external to the tank. The vapor lines have some kind of network inside the tank so that the vapor always has a way to escape. So there's more inside the tank that you can't see. The vent line might work, but I can't say for sure. I'd remove the sender from the tank and solder in another nipple for the return. Easy for me.

    The vent nipple (bulkhead fitting) seals to the hose with that hex nut that's visible on the outside. It just squishes the hose wall to seal. You can remove the nipple and install it in a replacement fill hose. Not complicated - just take it apart.

    [​IMG]

    This is the factory location. Move the backup lights if they are in the way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
  14. Jul 27, 2015
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thanks Tim - got the vent line nipple apart from the filler hose. Not as complicated as I thought at first. The rubber filler hose was so hard that I thought there was a metal sleeve on the inside that I did not want to damage. Once I got the locked gas cap off I could see in a lot better and take it apart. I can recreate that set-up without too much hassle with new hose. I do think its a replacement tank as well - if for no other reason than its in too good a shape inside and out - but I don't know all the slight differences in features year to year others probably do.

    Need to test the sending unit resistance - if its good then I will look into adding a nipple for vapor return. If not then new sending unit - I do want the fuel gauge to work.

    When you say 'loop back' - loop each vent back into itself or connect one vent directly to the other?

    thanks - its gonna be a while before I get this installed but getting all the pieces is a big start.
     
  15. Jul 27, 2015
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Connect one vent to the other. Assuming you'll be using a vented cap.
     
  16. Jul 27, 2015
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thanks - just wanted to make sure.:beer:
     
  17. Jul 27, 2015
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    maybe cause your in california and have those super large bulky fill nozzle . here in virginia I can put the whole nozzle in fill hole
     
  18. Jul 27, 2015
    gunner

    gunner Member

    Washington state...
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    Not sure if it has any application here, but on my '70 DJ, the metal filler pipe looks a lot like the hose you show- same sort of bends. The pipe on the DJ extends out of the body, pretty much in the location Tim shows in his pic and the gas cap goes directly on to it. The rubber gasket/seal (same part as the one for the underseat tank) holds it in place. A short piece of fuel resistant hose connects the pipe to the tank, which is only 11 gallon. It's a stout set up- no sloppiness. Maybe it would work. One might be able to grab one off a postal in the yard. I've pulled quite a few parts off postals, but never considered getting that filler pipe.

    Also, the 70 pipe is pretty big (no unleaded back then); as mentioned, it's the same size as the filler on the underseat tank. It doesn't have any nipples on it, though the later DJ set ups might. The tank, though, has vapor recovery outlets (plugged in my case).
     
  19. Jul 27, 2015
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    This filler neck is a little smaller than my underseat tank filler neck - surprised it wasn't the same - but its not as small as a late 76 and after neck (at least from what I remember). Not really an issue either way. I am hesitant to mount the filler neck/cap in what would be the natural location that tim shows as my reverse light is right there. I don't really want to move the light - not sure why but it is what it is...maybe because it would bother me that the left side light would be lower. Could just go without the light I guess. I think I would most prefer to mount it above the reverse light (about where tim's light is), but would have to find a hose to work and there is not a lot of room up there.
     
  20. Jul 27, 2015
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

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    FYI this is what my filler neck looks like...but I don't have back up lights.

    [​IMG]
     
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