Planning My Build

Alright, I've bought steel and committed to building my own frame. So now that brings up a whole new set of questions.
1) Since I am already replacing the front Dana 27 with a Dana 30 or possibly a 44 is there any benefit to widening the frame or outboarding the suspension? I happened to look at a DJ and noticed it had a boxed frame and outboard suspension. Increased stability and extra room for the exhaust come to mind but I'm worried about motor mounts, tire clearance and turning radius. Is this even something I should be considering?

 

Alright, I've bought steel and committed to building my own frame. So now that brings up a whole new set of questions.
1) Since I am already replacing the front Dana 27 with a Dana 30 or possibly a 44 is there any benefit to widening the frame or outboarding the suspension. Stability and room for exhaust come to mind but I'm wondering if this is something I should even be considering. I happened to look at a DJ and noticed it had a boxed frame and outboard suspension.

 

I would think that the width of the frame would depend on the width of the axles you intend to use. Also body mount locations might be a consideration too. While the frame might be the first item you need to fabricate, you need to finalize the axles you are going to use and build the frame to accommodate them as well as the body.

 

If the frame is wide enough to begin with there is no real advantage to out boarding the frame I feel.

i agree... Build around your axles....

 

X2 When building a frame or making changes, the 2 most important things, after material choice and thickness,will be wheel base and wheel track/width.

That will dictate,everything else about the build.

 

They are right when they say build around your axles but you must look at the whole picture. For example. I have just built a 2x4 frame at 32" oc so I wouldn't have to outboard my spring anchors. The reason that I decided upon 32" is because my front axle is out of a 76' Wagoneer and it has the pumpkin with the spring perch cast into it. Now that the frame has been widened the stock body mounts are inside the frame and also directly above the frame. For my build this is not a problem because I will be replacing my floors and fabricating new floor supports so I can relocate the body mounts.

There is nothing wrong with outboarding your spring/shackle anchors as long as you build them correctly. I outboarded the front shackle anchors on my Willys Wagon and I wheel it pretty hard and haven't had any problems.

Steve

 

Turk, What width axles did you end up with Front & Back? RMS to RMS? Did you take the 32" all the way back?

 

This is just a guideline ,that works out great.
It is why the early jeeps look so good with 31s.


What ever wheel base you choose, Divide it by PHI, 1.618 an you will have a great base for any build.

It will be physically balanced, and Aesthetically appealing. It is the same reason leonardo da vinci art was so bad ***.

Example

Early jeep.

81/1.618=50/1.618=30.9........ 81 inch wheel base...... 50 inch width..... 31 inch tire. So with an 81 inch wheel base , 48 to 52 would be good, tire would be 29 to 33 would still fall in line.

72-75

84/1.618=51.9/1.618=32

Just a great center line.

Also when doing ladder bars/traction bars the same , EX. 81 inch wheel base needs a 45 to 55 inch , 50 would be ideal. I should also add you can start with axle width ex 50/1.618=31 so as shortest and still function would be 29 inches there abouts


Also I should add.

If you widen your own wheels it works out alsr when choosing wheels.

EX 8 inch wide wheel.......8/1.618=5/1.618=3............ 8 inch wheel, center is 1 inch off center at 5 inches , with a 3 inch back space.

EX2, 10 inch wheel, 10/1.618 =6.18/1.618=3.819.........10 wheel, center is 1.25 inch from center at 6.25 with 3.75 back spacing.

But with all this is just a good center line,to start with.

Hope it all helps.

 

PHI .618. I have used for over 20 years, when searching for True breeding plants, (Heirloom tomatoes)

It is the best way to finding GMO/man made hybrid plants.

No matter what man dose to genetics, we can not compete with the suns power All pants/trees chase the sun, so they have spiral growth, when you look down on the plant.

If you are interested, this is a good reference for the basics, but applies to just about all things. http://www.natures-word.com/sacred-...roportion/phi-the-golden-proportion-in-nature

ex building a deck , 16 feet wide... what depth would be Ideal? 16/1.618=9.88... so 9 to 10 feet.

If you want to move this post for being kind of off topic, please do, I was just posting this info because when it come to engineering .....

It is all relative

 

It is also why I chose my early jeep as my MID Life crisis, project.LOL

Self preservation started to catch up to me... I road raced a 1991 honda 600, for about 8 years ,and road on the street and up in north Georgia alot a 1998 Ducati 996 sps replica.( I will try to find some old race pics)

Had a nice big motor, with nothing to put it in.

Found an old picture of my old jeep



The memories started to detonate in my head............And Whamoo



LOL

This is what the old bike looked like

( not mine but mine was a mirror image)

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/95/220666769_efba087ce5.jpg

Please move or delete this post if you want.

 

Well, I agree that the old Jeeps look good with 31s. However, for my project I don't think the formula will work. With my 4 door stretch and 112" wheelbase my width would be 69" and I should run 43" tires. Ironically, in my youth I had a 1972 Blazer that was pretty close to those specs. Maybe you've diagnosed my mid-life crisis.

So back on topic. I think the build from the axle up logic makes sense and since I'd like to salvage at least the rear end out of my project, I'm thinking the stock width makes sense. I know there are probably tons of threads on axle swaps on here and I haven't searched yet, However, I'm reasonably certain there's probably a Dana 44 or 30 (I know for sure here) that will work with the stock width frame. BTW my rear Dana 44 appears (based on the wheel rotation method) to have 5:38 gears. I'll be hunting for a front end with similar gearing and disc brakes.

 

LOL yeah. Yours is not a normal build hehe'

A jeeps natural body width just is not design for a 112 wheel base LOL and 4 doors. HEEHEE.

You would have to scale everything up , like fender well curves, tire sidewall to top center of fender curve, and what knot.

But if you do it looks normal. Bob chandler was a master at it with his big foot trucks.

Thats why big long trucks, like long bed quad cabs, look like they would snap in the middle LOL.

They are just longer with out the body width,scale

Anyways Can not wait to see the build come together.

 

Hey are you going to do a custom top? Like a soft top or hardtop?

Or are you going with a 4 door half cab look?

Are you going to just add length behind the doors to make room for the new door?

Or are you going to ad enough to use the 3 inch longer fenders? and the doors?

Where is most of the length going to be added? Front, middle, rear, Or alittle of all 3?

Just curious.

 

You probably won't find a D44 or a D30 with 5.38's unless you get one that has already been re-geared. At least I've never run across one. I had to re-gear my D30 to match the rear 5.38 ratio. Not a big deal, and who knows, you might run across one. I wanted a little more width on my Jeep so I'm using 3/4" spacers on the front D30 and 1 3/4" spacers on the rear. Had them for several years with no complaints.

 

here ya go man

this one is cool as hell Add ... he used a cj7 and a cj5 tub together.... you should do it with two cj5s



But this one is my fav

 

So here's the plan. I hope to add all the stretch in the middle. Basically I want to cut the existing tub off behind the gas fill. Follow the angled line to the vertical line below



Then I want to cut the new tub I hopefully will find soon along the front edge of the front door (basically cutting off the windshield, cowl and firewall) sort of like the red lines in the photo below


Now if one of you photoshop wizards wants to piece this idea together for me, man would I be grateful.



So the plan is to keep the short front end. Realistically since I plan on doing flat fenders and I want to replace the horrible fitting fiberglass hood, I will probably buckle and go with the longer front. I definitely want to go with 2 CJ5 tubs and not mix or match like the green Jeep.

 

I truly, can not wait .

I love that kind of build.

 

I sourced some D44's Narrow Trac's out of a 1976 Wagoneer, the fronts are flat top nuckles. I'm not sure what RMS is but the Wheel mounting surface to wms is approx 60" front and rear. Yes I decided to keep the frame simple and I kept the frame at 32" front to back.

Sorry Knothead I don't know how to photoshop or I would help ya.

Steve

 

Alright. Time for the next batch of questions. I located a possible second tub for the stretch. The good is that it comes with a windshield and fenders. The bad is that it also comes with rotted out rear corners. The interesting part is that he also has a set of Chevy motor mounts that say Trager Engineering in Fresno. These are professionally made and cast. They seemed too light to be metal. I'm thinking they might have been aluminum. So the guy is looking for $300 for the tub and he said another $100 for the mounts but that was with a chevy bellhousing adapter too. Has anyone heard of this conversion manufacturer before? I am located in Fresno so I don't know if this is some odd local deal or something that was time tested and proven and just happened to be manufactured locally.

 

I took some measurements of my CJ to help you with your build. These measurements are with the weight of the frame, engine,trans and tub on the tires. These numbers will change once the the CJ is completed. Note, these measurements are approximated.

Tires are 33x12.5x15"
YJ 2" lift leaf springs. The springs are new so they will settle once they have some miles on them.
Body lift 2" (the lift will go away once I make a proper trans crossmember and can lower the trans)
Ground to bottom of frame 21.5"
Ground to top of rocker (door opening) 33" -------- This will change to 31" when body lift is removed
Top of wheel to bottom of arch 7" --------------- This will change to 5" when body lift is removed

With these numbers you might be challenged to fit 35" tires and have good clearance during articulation. Of course this all depends on what your plans are for the usage of your CJ.

I took a pic of mine today before I removed the rear suspension to stretch it even farther. I changed the wheelbase to 101" this afternoon. Yes, the wheel is not centered in the opening because I had stretched the wheelbase to 95". I will be sliding the tub back another inch and I will also be stretch cutting the tub to clear the 40's.

[/url] 20140107_131627 by Sparky Powers, on Flickr[/IMG]