Planning My Build

In the spirit of disclosure and as a disclaimer this is my first Jeep build and I am starting with very knowledge so I'm floating this out for the sake of others input and to set me straight. I bought a basket case '67 Cj5 that was a roller with a good set of tires. So here's what is definitely going to happen (and a lot of you won't like it). I'm stretching it 35" to make it a 4-door. Now to answer the resounding "Dear God, why man chorus" I can already hear, the answer is we're a family of 5 and I can't swing a JK. So the stretch allows me to put in a ~55" rear seat for the kids.

Other definites are a switch to power steering, disc brakes (at least up front) and a transmission swap.

On the maybe list is the YJ spring conversion, a Dana 30 upgrade and a motor swap.

The tub has been removed from the chassis and my focus right now is mapping it all out. The big question is, while the tub is off and I have a chassis all apart, what are the things you experts recommend I do?

Motor
The Jeep came with a Buick 225. My conundrum is a strong desire for fuel injection. It will be driven around in town (500' elevation) but equally used offroad at 7,500' elevation. So my understanding is that the odd-fire is difficult to impossible to add fuel injection to. The 225 is all apart and has been in a barn for at least 5 years. The seller said the compression was 125 per cylinder and it burned about a quart of oil every 800 miles. He thought it had been rebuilt once before. I haven't even looked at it. The cam is out of it. So with all that going on, is it possible/feasible/prudent to convert it to an even fire 231? Or, is the smart money a 4.3l conversion?

Transmission
This actually might influence the motor choice but I'm thinking SM465 or possibly going to an automatic (TH350 or 700R4/4L60). Remember I have the stretch so length is not an issue. However, I'm concerned about the front driveline clearance. This Jeep will be flat towed to the mountains most of the time. That's about 75 miles. So, with the the Dana 18 case and any of the transmissions mentioned, is this possible without disconnecting the rear driveshaft? That might tip the scale in favor or one option or another.

 

Fuel injection is not an impossibility. Several members here have done it quite successfully.

The build possibilities are limited only by your imagination. You're on the right track by developing a plan first. Research the options that interest you and even some that don't. The mechanicals you have mentioned have all been done and there is a ton of information here using the search function and conversing with the members. It's a vault of information.

Have you considered a cj6?

And, if it were me, personally, I'd go 4.3 but, that's just me. Adding FI to a torquey 225 has a certain appeal as well.

 

I understand you folks like photos so here's what I'm dealing with.

 

Hey if you want FI get one of these

Its for two barrels, and has all the parts needed in the kit, TPS,crank and cam sensor,ECU.and what not.

 

Ok, my take: a 35" streatch is a lot and you will need to spend more than a little time with the frame. In addition to proper fixes for the already cobbled stuff, it needs a full box and maybe some additional plates on the outside over the spring hangers. You will also probably want something wider than the 1.75" stock springs.

Engine? The 225 is a fine piece but a 4.3 is better. Both way more parts options and cheaper parts. The only advantage you have with the 225 is the motor mounts are in-place. Personally, I would be putting in a Chevy small block V8. Probably the lowly 350.

Also, personally, I would be going with the SM465 but that's mainly because I hate automatics unless they shoot something. You can probably sell the T86 transmission but it is certainly not something you want to use for this. The large index D18 should be fine. At some point you will likely need to address axles but that is something pretty easy to swap out at any point.

I think we have all seen much worse starting points. Keep the pictures coming!

 

x10

or at least a 304/360/401

 

I'm typically the guy going against V8s, but if you're gonna stretch 35 inches I wouldn't even bother with the 225 or 4.3. I'd go straight to a V8, you gotta move all that metal somehow and I think a V8 would be better suited, whether it be a 302, 304, 350 etc.

However I'm very skeptical of going to four doors. Every '5 I've seen stretched to four doors looked awful.

 

Personally I would not even mess with that old chassis.............it's already been broken and cobbled up in a few places...............build a new one out of 2x4 tubing.........front and rear sections out of .125 wall and the long center stretch out of .180-.250 wall...............since its rectangular tubing its already boxed and will be much stronger than the old one.............Tubing costs about $250.00-$300.00

 

I went through much the same thinking on what to do with a frame. I finally decided to stertch a more modern frame for my CJ 6. Easier to adapt a newer GM motor be it V6 or V8 (thank you Advance Adaptors), Boxed frame, modern coil spring supension. Found a 2000 TJ frame in the junk yard with a lot of parts sill on it for 1500.00 sold the parts I didn't need to keep for my project and stertched it.

I went though the lines of thinking, box the old frame, have some make me a tublar frame, or stretch a newer frame.

Another line of think is build a buggy and just use the sheet metal to cover it up.

IF you could find an LJ frame good enough, you could start with that it is already allmost 20in of the 35in you are talking about. (I couldn't find one in my area)

 

35 inch stretch is huge.

Find a scrambler frame and put your body on it, if your wanting a stubby nose jeep.

 

Since you asked....and knowing what I think you want but not knowing your skill level or amount of money you want to sink into this....

Much has already been said above but my thoughts:

I'd build new frame out of box steel. Plans are available on this website.
For cost, Chevy 350, fuel injected, straight from a junk yard or private individual.
You will need to upgrade axles. I'd look for a set of D44's. Scout if you want to keep the tires close and not lift the jeep much. If you lift the jeep, or like to hammer the throttle, I'd look for a set of D44, D60 or a set of D60's.
Full roll cage since kids are involved.

I think the rest you have covered, disc brakes, PS, PB, tranny, etc. To do this right (well built, strong, SAFE) will be fairly expensive.

 

New hd frane is a most.

Engine. Sbc chevy with a th350 and a np205. You be able to put the np205 in neutral but the best of all sollution is to take off the rear d shaft.

Suspension you should go with coil spring set-up more comfortable on the trail. By a set of jk 4 inch coil and built a supension around it.

Axle: dana 44 from waggy are the best compromise. Scout one have the same outer axle shaft as a dana 30 cj. Dana 60 could br good but tire will stick out lot more than dana 44.

Brake: all corner disq brake with brakr booster. Nothing less about family.

But you may think about strech it to do a intermediate cj6. You could buy a top for
It or you will need to make a costum one.

Steering: tilt colum and ram assist is strongly suggest.

I'll follow youre thread you got something interesting here!

 

Thanks for all the input. I am surprised at the number of people recommending a completely new frame. I had intended to box the frame. My plan for the joint in the frame was to 1) weld the joint 2) line the interior of the channel and weld it and then cap the channel with channel cut to fish plate along the face of the frame.

Also, I'm surprised at the number of people recommending the V8 over the 6. From what I've read, it can be a bit of a complicated fit with the short nose. I really thought I was only adding about 200 pounds to move. I didn't think it would require that much extra power. However, at least in my area the V8 is easier to find.

Again thanks the advice. This is why I'm here and asking questions. I am still tinkering with the amount of stretch. I'd like it to be less but the 35" essentially lines up the front of the rear door with the back of the seat back. I may be able to shrink it a couple of inches but getting it down to 20" would be tough. Anyone know the length of the scrambler frame. I will look for those plans.

 

...Also, I'm surprised at the number of people recommending the V8 over the 6. From what I've read, it can be a bit of a complicated fit with the short nose. I really thought I was only adding about 200 pounds to move....

Correct in just the basic frame, sheet metal. but add a seat, the kids, some gear, extra drive shaft lengths, etc and it gets much more than the 200 pounds. And a 4.3 would work. Especially if you built it for torque. And getting it to fit might be an issue but for the cost, and as long as you are making a new frame, get intermediate and later fenders and hood. It will fit just fine. Oh, and if you look on the net, (google 4 door cj to start) you get some idea of what it will look like. Might want to put a CJ7 door and then a CJ5 door. Or two cj7's. Personally, I think two cj7's would look much better. Or maybe find a YJ because it would be less expensive.

As I said, to do this right, it will be expensive.

 

A box stock 4.3 TBI put out 195 hp, will fit on your existing frame mounts, will bolt up to your existing transmission with the stock Chevy bellhousing, and will fit any of the other transmissions you mentioned.

 

If you want the length of a Scrambler frame I a can measure mine.

I have seen Scramblers with two CJ back seats in a stock Scrambler body, but not four door. The tour companies used to use Scramblers to carry six people (driver incluled).

The Scrambler is 103ish wheel base which would give 20in or so extra between the fender wells (with out moving the axles). At one time I measured from the Firewall/fender seam and compared it to my LJ. Most of the extra length of the Scrambler body is about nine inches behind the rear fender opening. It has a longer rear over hang than the LJ or CJ6 has.

I have all three at the house if you want demeinsion let me know what you want.

 

Thanks for the offer. I have decided to take the majority of the advice and go with a custom frame. Really when I pencil out the cost of having the existing frame media blasted and then doing the stretch with gussets and supports PLUS the boxing for the saginaw steering AND the probable relocation of brackets for a YJ spring conversion there really isn't much of a case to be made for working with what I've got. I talked to a local guy who thought someone in town did mandrel bending of square tubing. I have yet to confirm that this person exists and if so whether they can do "hard way" bending.

I don't claim to be much of a forum expert but I did try and find the plans. Can anyone help me out with a link to the plans?

 

Here's a link from JP Magazine about building a frame from scratch.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/154-1108-building-a-jeep-cj5-frame-from-scratch/
The basic layout would work for you. You'd just have to tweak the measurements for what you want to do.

 

I stripped, stretched and boxed the stock frame on my 56' Willys Wagon and from my experience I told myself that I would never go that route again. I built a frame for my ECJ loosely based on the JP magazine build that Posimoto gave you the link to. I say loosely because I took their measurements and made it work to achieve a 95"+/- wheelbase with YJ leaf springs, soon it will be 100"+ with links suspension. IMHO, building a new frame from scratch was much easier than reworking an old frame. Reworking the old frame took a couple weeks and building a new frame took a few days.

Steve