Flat Fender build opinions needed

Hi Everyone

I have this thought running around in my head. I really wanna build a flatfender Willys Jeep that I can use on the highways and byways of my neck of the woods (upstate NY).

I dont off road so I wont need 4 wheel drive. I would like something simple to work on, 5 speed transmission maybe so we are decent on gas MPG's too.

I love love love the looks of a flatfender....that's where the love ends...all that it is, is basically a tractor with a second seat...so my question is...whats do you guys think would be a good base running gear wise to use to build something like this?? I would prefer American made if possible. I keep seeing in my head a 2 wheel drive GEO tracker type/style of vehicle...small but fun too...something that will be ok on real paved roads...something that can run along at 55 MPH would be ideal...

Any thoughts or insight would be great.

MikeC

 

Just my thoughts, but would still build it 4x4 even if not really planing a lot of trail use. And for me, there is only one engine platform-small block Chevy. If mostly street, an M20 Muncie or Super T10, probably the latter with at least the 2.88 low gear. Nothing wrong with a D18 but would put one together using a D20 case. Lots of threads here on steering, brakes, and axles. If properly done, there is no problem crusing at 75 mph or a whole lot faster depending on tires-and still look more or less stock.

 

Hi Duffer

Thanks for the input...I am not a off roader so you gotta bear with me here...A D18 is the front or rear axle???...and the D20 is another axle??Also what did they come in from the factory...I have never had a V8 in my life..I was actually thinking of an Iron Duke out of a CJ5 maybe????...
Are M20's and the super T10's are they 4 speeds?....Also the M20's and T10's what did they come in from the factory...
I want something basic that I can get parts from a local NAPA auto parts store...

MikeC

 

Hey Danstew

Do have a build thread on here that I could look at to see how you got yours together????....What rear end is centered that is narrow enough to fit under something as narrow as a Flatfender???...I am hoping for something very very basic that I can run from point A to point B and not worry about a check engine light on....decent MPG's and keep up with traffic too...any insight would be great...(Flatfenders look so cool...)...


MikeC

 

Remove the transmission and transfer case. Put in the T5 5 speed overdrive transmission from a Mustang. Then pick your Ford Engine, which has the distro in front where you want it. Personally I would just buy a 2.3L 4 cyclinder Mustang engine and transmission together and be done with it. That can be used with your stock radiator and gauges.

If you run that combo, with 235/75r15's tires you will be turning right at 3200 rpms at 65 mph which is not bad for those engines. If that is too high then get 4.27 ring and pinion installed in your axle (the front will not longer be used) and that would bring the RPMs down to 2500 at 65 MPH which would be great.

Cheaper and easier than running Chevy imo, unless you were going to go with a Chevy 4 cylinder which I can't recommend. If I were taking the 4 wheel drive out I would put an automatic in. But before I did any of that I would try to find an old DJ, a postal Jeep. They come just like you want and even have a hard top. You could either remove the hard top or keep it.

The postal Jeep has the perfect rear end for that use, even if you could not find a whole postal he might could score both the front and rear axle to convert it

 

Dana 18 is a transfer case.

So is a Dana 20.

The AMC 20 is a rear axle.

 

First off you must realize that you'll never attain excellent MPG using a jeep universal body style.
Buying an existing vehicle is often cheaper than building.
That said you should primarily find a Jeep that already closely fits your needs.
Because you have no interest in 4WD applications you should primarily consider the DJ's and not the CJ,s.
See: http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/index.php?
Scroll down to the DJ forum.
DJ's were built from 1956 -1975.
DJ's have certain advantages over CJ's. and vice versa.

 

Look for a "surry Jeep", or a DJ3. Both are 2 wheel drive. Surry Jeeps are really cool!

 

I may be biased here, as this is pretty much what my current project is- namely a 2wd Jeep.

Here's my suggestions which come from my experiences so far:

1. get a DJ jeep. Doesn't have to have a body and if it does and you want a flat fender, then ditch the body after removing any parts that might be useful to you.

2. so if you have a DJ frame and running gear; a flat fender body is 1 inch shorter than a DJ body so some mods are necessary, along with any body mounts not lining up etc. Shouldn't be a huge problem though and others would have more insight on that. A plus to the DJ is outboard rear leaf springs for stability

3. mount the flat fender body to the DJ frame then turn your attention to the drive train.

4. the centered rear 44 is perfect. They normally run 3.73 gears- again just right for a 2wd

5. decide on your engine/tranny combo; could be chevy, ford, Toyota, etc. You just have to be able to fabricate motor mounts etc. This being a 2wd makes this a relatively easy task compared to a 4x4

6 in terms of engines, I'd suggest a 4 banger- easy to adapt looks right in the engine compartment, etc. But really, you can use anything you want; even a V8 would get good mileage and be a blast to drive till you killed yourself

7. use a 5 speed tranny (T-5 or equivalent) or an auto. All the postal jeeps have autos- some are good to use some should be swapped out for other autos. autos have a lot going for them in terms of simplicity

My DJ will keep a rebuilt Chev 153, mated to a T-5 out of a 89 S10. Keep the centered Dana 44 with 3.73s and a posi. 11" drums all around and 235-75-15 tires. Left hand drive, get rid of the funky sliding doors and make a ton of other, time-consuming changes....

I toyed with the idea of dumping the DJ body and looking for a flat fender body. But where I live- it gets wet and I wanted a hard top- which the DJ comes with. If I lived where it's drier, I would have gone with a flat fender body.

But you'd better have some fabrication and mechanical skills or be willing to learn them. I've had quite the steep learning curve. Nice thing about it is no worries about altering the vehicle- mod away!

 

Hi Gunner

Wow wow wow....you got my attention on your post here....do you have any pictures of your DJ build??....I am really interested in it...I built my 1947 CJ2A and I gotta tell you....cool cool cool rig...but darn...not a good daily driver at all...(not on paved roadways at least)
So I learned....right now I am doing a 1960/61/62 Willys truck on a 2WD S10 chassis...I am hoping for that to be done in a year or so...so if I could start scrounging parts now I wouldn't have any down time between builds....I have really bad ADD or ADHD or what ever it is called...

So now I gotta find a source of a DJ Jeep I think...not sure how collectible they are...I know the flat fenders are for sure...are postal Jeeps collectible????

Thanks guys for all the insight and thoughts here...

MikeC

 

Realize there is a DJ3A, which is the 2WD flatfender version of the 3A with some 3B stuff tossed in for fun. It came with the L head stock, and is noticeably faster than a 4WD flatty. You could build one of them stock with virtually no fabbing. The Surrey Jeep mentioned is a special trim package that added a surrey top, striped upholstery, and a bunch of other things suitable for the Hawaiian climate and conditions. Real Surreys are $20,000 jeeps nowadays in nice shape. Not many real ones exist. There are more DJ3A's around, with tailgates, hardtops, delivery bodies with door cutouts all the way to the floor, etc. I have seen running DJ3A projects in the $1500-$3000 range. I own several DJ3A's and participate in the DJ3A discussion group on the 3B site. I too like their simplicity. Check out my thread on the DJ with doors over there.(It is the jeep in my avatar.)

Then there is the DJ5 A/b/c whatever, the classic Postal jeep. Gunner is talking about this one. It came with many different engine and transmission options, was 2WD, and was basically the 2WD version of the CJ5, with an extended nose an an ugly grille along with some other funky body parts. They are CHEAP to buy or used to be, partly because of the 2WD platform and ugliness but also because most ate thrashed or rotted badly. To fab a flatty from a DJ5 series will require a bit more fabrication due to tub length and width changes...There are places out there that specialize in the postal jeep, check them out.

Your current jeep will bolt up to a Postal Jeep or a DJ3A front axle. Double check the width though on the Postal jeep one. I'm not sure but you might even be able to get disc brakes on one. you'll want hanging pedals and a modern dual circuit master. Steering from a Postal means Saginaw steering, far superior to the ross box. Bolt in a Toyota or Nissan or Ranger 2wd engine tranny combination, find a rear axle that works, and voila, high speed 2WD jeep. Or???? The possibilities are pretty endless.

 

A year or so ago, I just barely missed a 57 DJ3A. I was bummed but it did give me the idea of looking at postals. There are quite a few more of them than the old DJ3A. FBill is correct- the postals have been oftentimes thrashed and rotted. Sounds like some of the challenges I've had. As an example, the sliding side doors had an elaborate sliding rail system and were hung from the rain gutter area. As soon as the rain gutter caulking eroded and broke up- even a little bit- the water would get in there and start to rust the sheet metal which was sandwiched 3-4 thick. I don't think they treated all the layers of sheet metal. Anyhow- big rust/rot problem! To make matters worse, the act of hanging the doors (which are very heavy) from the rain gutter area gave the postals a very bad center of gravity. Getting rid of those doors was the first thing I did. I was lucky to find a set of aluminum CJ5 doors at the swap met for 10 bucks each. This means I will fabricate CJ5-style door sills. Lotsa fabrication....

Be aware, in some ways, this project has more work involved than a typical 4x4 project. The drivetrain though is easier even though I will put in swinging pedals, a standard tranny and have to move the engine forward a bit and the rear axle back a bit. Without the need to figure out the transfer case, and front driveshaft, things are a bit simpler.

But overall, it's still a fair amount of work. I'm not ready to post pics as I want to get close to finishing it first. In the meantime, get out looking for a platform.

 

Agreed. I just don't see the postals as being collectible. I can easily understand it with just about any other jeep- the DJ3As included. I readily alter the DJ while I agonize over even a single new hole drilled in the M38A1.

Most forum members are familiar with the postals as sources of steering columns, 11" brakes, occasional gas tank... eh, maybe there's not much more they offer

 

Hi everybody

So if watch the Craigslist area around my place I might be able to pick up an old Postal Jeep which will give me most of the stuff I am looking for...and the fact they are NOT worth much might actually help with overall cost of this project....
There was an older one on the ewillys website but darn the thing was 3,000 miles away ....price was right but I can bet shipping was crazy expensive to upstate NY for sure...you guys gave me so much insight and so many options to think about...I am very grateful to all who posted on this thread...any more opinions would be wonderful....

MikeC