Picked up this 1960 Willys CJ-5 - lots of questions!

"At an average speed of 35 mph, if you drive 6 hours a day..."

I have found that 35mph is just about the average I can make with a modern vehicle, on Blue Highways here in New England.

 

"Plan to drive it back, have a contingency plan for towing it if something breaks, take the back roads, enjoy the ride, take lots of pictures and wave at everyone you see!"

I'm for driving it also - just drive it around home a while first for a shake down and hit the road. Dump some marvel mystery oil in to see if you can free up the rings and get the compression up. 2 summers ago, I took my old jeep on the backroads to northern Michigan for vacation with my adult daughter (250 miles one way). It was a great trip. Sunny day, took the top off and enjoyed the scenery. Found a back roads route and did 45 -50 most of the way. Stacked up a choo choo train of cars behind me a couple times (Whats the rush?) but just pulled off at the first oportunity and let the impatient buggers pass. Only issue I had is the bolts for the tranny crossmember vibrated loose and when it dropped down the transfer case got bumped into neutral and wouldn't go into high range. Borrowed a bolt from the other side to get to a hardware store to buy some more - so bring some tools. It was a memorable, awesome trip. Only regret was I didn't do any wheeling while I was up there because the clutch was on it's last legs and I was afraid if I did I'd have to replace it before I got home. Might just do it again this summer now that I have a new clutch and U-joints.

 

I have to say that I'm green with envy! I can't find anything half as nice on this side of the country, even for twice the price!

I say drive it home but stay off the main roads and interstates AND have a support vehicle hauling spares parts, tools, food and water and camping gear with you. You'll almost certainly need it! But that's what memories are made of! I think most of us have taken "dumb" trips before! Mine was in a 1963 MG Midget that left a trail of parts all the way from Florida to Mississippi. BTW you are aware that these only get about 9 MPG at 50 MPH so you will probably spent more driving it than it would cost to tow it or have it transported, aren't you? And that's one with a GOOD engine so you may not even get that MPG.

PS take along a service manual! You'll probably be an expert, or at least an experienced Jeep mechanic, at repairing these before you arrive!

 

+1 on the idea of taking back roads and stuff. We take my dad's VW Thing (Type 181 for anyone who really cares, and officially as bad a ride as a CJ) about four hundred miles round trip on a regular basis during the warm months, with very few problems. Just make sure to check the oil, air up the tires, and do routine maintenance before you leave. The Thing isn't much faster than a CJ (max of 60 with a weird hybrid bug/bus transmission, probably 45 with one closer to a T90), and definitely has the same handling and bounce issues.

I wouldn't do that trip in a relatively unknown vehicle, or try to strain the engine to make "highway speeds" in one I know. Take your time, enjoy the trip, and bring a camera. Leave "highway speeds" for the ricers and forced induction maniacs.

 

It's not the Jeep I worry about. Mine can still cruise at 55 no problem (somehow ).
It's the other drivers on freeways and highways. At least in my area, people come up on me so fast even in the slow lane at 60, that I don't really feel comfortable driving it without something more than my roll bar.

 

My experience is : 700 km non sotp on the highway

When I bought my CJ5 HUrricane engine, it is waiting for me in a garage, in the Alps. I had to cross haf france to take it back.
I had oil and water with me. My son was following me with car to help me if necessary.
The car was cehcked theoritically before.

1 - the max normal speed was 73 Kilometer per hour. It is slow. I could push more but it seemed to be the cruising speed.
2 - I had some problems with the fuel tank, so I was obliged to stop every 150 km to put 15 liters by safety.
So I decide to stay on the highway (there is no slow speed limit in France) instead of using small roads in 2 days.

It was very boring to travel like this, but very complex to put the Jeep on a truck. I did it, but I was exhausted during 3 days.
Well, I did it. But if you can find a truck to bring it back at a good price...do it!

 

73km/hour = 45mph

 

thanks for all the info guys -- at this point we're looking into possibly shipping it, and taking some back roads over a few days as a back-up plan.

but in the meantime, I need to get it at least in daily-driver reliable condition, even if she ain't pretty

to that end -

I put the engine to (what I think) is TDC -- I found the notch (with a bit of paint in it) on the crank pulley, and turned until it lined up with the pointer. The good news is, when i popped the cap off the dist, the rotor was pointing where I expected (to the # 1 spark wire) but I confirmed that it is 180 degrees off where the manual says it should be. Is it common for people to flip the drive dog on the bottom of the distributor? I've searched all over and I cannot find a part number anywhere on this distributor, so I'm not sure its even the stock/correct one. Secondary question -- I didn't have a compression gauge hooked up to #1 as I was turning the crank, so I don't know if it was the "compression" stroke - is it possible for the PO to have goofed and set it up so 1 is firing on the exhaust stroke? (ie, turn the crank pulley 360 degrees, returning to TDC mark, with rotor now pointed 180 degrees off where it was before)

nextly, I am planning to take it a nearby do-it-yourself car wash place with a high pressure hose to get the grime off the under carriage and suspension -- I want to be able to see where leaks are originating and have an easier (and less grimy) time when I go to repack/re-grease anything down there. Anybody have any issues I should look out for? Are there any wheel/suspension/under bits I should avoid hitting with water?

 

No...if it is running smoothly, it cannot be 180 out. It does not matter where it points as long as it points at number one plug when one is on the compression stroke. Otherwise there will be a lot of popping going on in most cases. Sounds like the PO installed it differently from the pic in the book...

 

"I didn't have a compression gauge hooked up to #1 as I was turning the crank"

A finger over the plug hole will tell you compression stroke. As said if it's running at all you already have it, close enough.

 

Does it still have the points in the distributor, or have they been changed out for a Pertronix Ignitor unit? I changed mine over. With the points in it timed off of #1 cylinder. With the Pertronix unit in, it timed off of #3 (or #4, don't remember which, as it has been a while, since 2008 when I did the swap) Times where it should be on the mark so I am not fixing what really isn't broken. Just note it in your tune-up manual for future reference. And the brakes are not going to be something you want to try to stop from 60 with. 50 at the most, and give your self plenty of stopping room between you and the probably driving unconsciously driver ahead of you. Oil dripping from the hole in the bell housing could also be from the front of the tranny, or the gasket under the valve cover, or even the oilpan gasket might be leaking.

I would not have a problem with driving my '60 long distances like that. But you MUST plan on stopping every hour and a half or two hours to shake out the kinks in your joints or what ever.

As for compression - if it is the same in all four cylinders, I don't think I would worry about it. Especially if the JEEP hasn't been run for a while. These are low-compression engines.

Oh, yeah. I get 17 mpg from mine running at 50 mph. You only have a 10 gallon tank under the seat, so at 9 mpg you have to stop every 80 miles for gas, at 17 you have to stop every 150 or 160 miles for gas. Which will coincide with your rest stops nicely. You may want to plan your route by where gas stations are located. Or/and carry a Jerry can or two for a reserve.


And where are you in New Mexico? That will also dictate what backroads routes you take through Arizona.

 

Oh, yeah. Really nice looking '60!

 

First -- thanks for all the insight re driving this. I am the "Dad" in question. I have a 1955 Unimog, so I am somewhat aware of the difficulties of off-road vehicles making long modern freeway trips -- as in -- generally, not a good idea. So looking into trucking/trailering it -- if any of you hve experience with someone in SW, feel free to pass along.

I more immediate question is which service manual is preferred/better? The more detailed the better, as I am a "slow wrencher" -- i.e. I can follow directions, but am not a great intuitive mechanic.

I have found the following -- not sure if they are basically the same thing or if one has an advantage over the other.

http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/...5-5A-6-Repair-Shop-Manual-Reprint-P11773.aspx
http://midwestjeepwillys.com/sm-1046.html
http://www.kaiserwillys.com/product/1679/willys-jeep-literature-mechanics-manuals-parts-accessories

Thanks

 

You want the factory service manual.

Here's a link from Turner's: http://thejeep.com/shop/TECH+MANUAL...%252F6+L%2526F+HEAD++JEEP+SERVICE+MANUAL.html

There's an early and a late manual. These manuals are reprints of the Jeep factory manual that was used by the dealership mechanics, and also sold to customers over the dealership parts counter. You want the Jeep factory service manual, not the Hayne's or Chilton's aftermarket manuals. The links you gave are all the same thing, except two are early and one late.

From the introduction of the CJ-5 in 1955 through 1965, the vehicle did not change much. So there is no year-by-year manual like you see for later cars. The 1966-on models offered an optional new engine, and there were some changes going into the 70s. For your '60, I'd go with the early manual, though the late manual would also be ok...

There's also a "Jeep Rebuilder's Guide" that is said to be helpful - I do not own it, but I've read good things about it. http://www.amazon.com/Jeep-Rebuilde...199825&sr=8-1&keywords=jeep+rebuilder's+guide

 

Thanks -- I had seen your earlier post re this manual -- but it says it doesn't cover 12v systems -- and this one has a 12v system (although I don't know if that was orginal), which is why I was looking further afield.

 

Mmm. I'm not sure that a '60 was 12V from the factory. Could have been optional at that time. Ken (oldtime) would probably know.

I suspect there's not much difference other than the voltage itself, as long as the Jeep has a generator.

The late manual also covers the F134 engine, so it too would be suitable. http://thejeep.com/shop/TECH+MANUAL...ECH+MANUAL+CJ3B+CJ5%252F6+12V+4+%2526V-6.html

 

If it was converted, you might be able to tell by the wiring. 6 volt wiring is heavier gauge than 12 volt. Don't remember how much, but it is very noticeable. I think '59 or '60 is when the change over took place.

 

well to that end -- I have some new info, pictures, and questions.

I got out there and confirmed it is 12v - has an alternator with what appears to be a VERY battered external regulator. I suspect this may have been converted, since the alt looks very modern for 1960, and the electrical is nonexistent except for the ignition switch, starting circuit, and headlights. The wires are there (for the gauges, tail lights, etc) but not hooked up, and I haven't yet found a fuse box anywhere.

here's the rats nest I want to clean up:


when I first picked it up, the butt end of the coil was resting ON the 3 post electrical thing with the thick red starter wire. I shifted it up so they'd have some breathing room,
and then was going to replace these wires but stopped because I wanted to id some of these wires first.

here is what I think is an external voltage regulator and diode -- the wires going to this pair of objects on the firewall have a few branches that terminate under the dash (I think to the ign switch) as well as at the alternator. I haven't traced every single one, at least 1 is a ground and another loops around before ending up at the starter where its 12v all the time - which makes me think this is a regulator of some kind.




I changed the spark plugs and it improved the idle dramatically, and got rid of an annoying miss. I'm pretty sure the timing is a little advanced, so as soon as its a little darker out I'll check the timing with my strobe. The carb is likely running a little rich so I'll adjust that too.

switching gears over to the steering -- I took a look under the radiator area and zeroed in on this:


which looks like it used to be wrapped around/part of this:


this is where the front tie rods connect to a longer rod that goes back to the steering box. I don't know if that wrap-ish part above is important/relevant or not. I grabbed each tie rod joint and gave them firm shakes in different directions, none seemed loose or anything.

I took it around the block today again (with a lot fewer rattles and vibrations thanks to the miss being gone) and confirmed that turning to the right is slightly "easier" with less resistance than turning left. I'm going to take it down the road and hose it all off and see what there is to see next.

Can anyone confirm is what I have on the firewall is a voltage reg? if so, does it look stock or some kind of PO hackery?