Would an AMC 360 fit into a 58 CJ5??? - daydreaming here...

My buddy has an AMC-era Wagoneer (1973 I think) that is pretty rusty, but has some really nice goodies on it and he does good mechanical work so it is a good runner - I will be posting it in the classifieds if he gets around to getting me info, but I am interested in the motor/trans if I can use them.

What would dropping an early 70's AMC 360 into a short wheelbase little ole 58 CJ5 entail? Could I drop in the whole engine/trans/transfer case? Still use the axles in the CJ?

Do I need too many suspension upgrades?

Too much cutting and pasting? Not enough room? not enough support for that big ole motor?

 

The engine should fit, an SBC fits and it has the distributor in back limiting engine placement.
Don’t know what your friend has in the Waggy but unless it’s a QuadraTrac it probably won’t have the offset rear output from the transfer case so it won’t match up with your rear axle.

 

Well, yes and no. That drivetrain probably includes a D20 which will require a centered rear axle. Transmission? Auto or standard? I haven't looked at a T96 for a while, but you may have length problems.

The bigger question is it really worth it? Another case of "just because you have it doesn't mean you should use it". The AMC motors do fit but so do small block Fords and Chevys which have way more parts available at cheaper prices. I am also not a big fan of D20's. Unless you regear, the 2:1 low range of the D20 is not near as good as the 2.46:1 in the D18 and the high out put makes for a much steeper driveshaft angle.

Would I do it? Nope.

 

What trans is with the waggie? My guess is you can use the motor but will have to use a short manual tranny. IIRC, even the manual trannys used in the waggies had a spacer to move the cane back into where it should be. In a CJ it would be between the seats and no room for the transfer case or driveshaft.

Would I do it? Oh heck yes. But it is not just a straight swap. Lots of work to make it right. And not inexpensive. I'd plan on spending $2K or so, maybe more.

 

Transmission in a '73 is almost certain to be a TH400. The transfer case could be either the Dana 20 or the Borg-Warner Quadratrac (1973 was the first year and Quadratrac was optional). The very unlikely manual transmission would be either the B-W T-15 or the B-W T-18, both with a very long input shaft and 5" thick adapter between the transmission and bell housing. All will be way too long for a CJ-5 when coupled to a V8.

With a V6, you can make the TH400 work by pushing the engine way forward, but I doubt you can with a V8 and have any rear drive shaft left.

My advice - sell the Wagoneer to another Wagoneer or J-truck owner for parts, and use the money to buy more suitable components. Keep the axles if you want to put them under your CJ - that's a fairly popular swap.

 

OK thanks guys, the Axles on the Wagoneer should be wider than mine right?

 

Yes. Front 58" width vs. 53" for a CJ Dana 30. The front has to be outboarded to fit.

Note that a '73 is the last year for closed knuckle 30 front in a Wagoneer. So hopefully it's a '74 or later. '73 is 5 lug, '74 is 6.

The rear axle would be worth keeping from a '73. Then you could match it with a '74 or later Wagoneer D44 front and fit Ford hubs to get a 5-lug open 44 front.

 

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but the first couple of things that come to mind are ... "why? and what is the upside to a financial layout of this magnitude?"

I think that the 2K estimate is low. It is probably more like 2 or 3 times that that or more if one considers everything else that would have to be modified or changed in order to make it safe, reliable, and complete.

You don't want to end up like so many who post an ad on Craigs List ....."for sale partially finished jeep. Set up for large block 360 engine. My priorities have changed and I need the garage space... Over 4,000 invested, will sell for 1,600.."

If a high horsepower jeep is what you need, then maybe you have the wrong jeep. 72-79 jeeps had the 304, power steering, 11 inch brakes, a REAL heater, and were much more comfortable to drive.

 

yeah i am already convinced. besides i dont want a comfortable jeep...jeep toss

 

I could be wrong here.. but I'd say it would not fit into a 58 cj. That's why AMC made the jeep longer after they bought it. A 360 could fit into a '70s cj sure.. but a 58- I have my doubts. I've a buick 231 in my 62 and that's a seriously tight fit. *MAYBE* if you did some serious fab or pulled the grill off a later year model.

 

AMC made the intermediate longer to fit the inline 6, not the v8. They lengthened the front clip 5" if I remember correctly. I know Tim knows. With work, the 360 will fit. If you use the 360 and find a manual out of a CJ that will bolt up it can be done as noted above. I am putting a 401 with a T18 using a bellhousing from a 304 with a T150 into a CJ6. Yes, it can fit with work.

I also agree with Tim, the smart thing would be to sell it to someone with a FSJ and keep your jeep stock or swap in a v6 that came in them. However, the question was would it work and yes, it could be made to work. Is it prudent, no. Is it inexpensive, no. Is a 360 in a CJ5 fun, yes.

 

Yeah, I think its 5 or 7" longer on the AMC jeeps. I've the belief that if you can dream it you can do it..so I say go for it, but I've a hard time imagining it I guess. With my 231 (v6) radiator for a mid 60's falcon and an electric puller fan... there is no room for 2 more cylinders as I can see with a stock grille set up, yet a modified grille or mid 70's grille would give you more room. Like I said in my last post, I could be wrong. :dead horse:

 

I had a 360 jeep truck from that era. The smog system was a nightmare, and after I rebuilt the engine, I never got it to run right, because it required higher-octane gas than we have today, needed for the high compression.

 

Why oh why would you ever choose to use any AMC motor? Sometimes the free parts are often the most expensive in the long run.

 

Hey! I resemble that remark!

IMO the AMC V8 engines are a commodity product comparable with the other V8 engines of their era. No reason not to keep an AMC V8 in the car it came in. They are too much of an oddball today to be good swap material, but otherwise they are fine.

The inline sixes are another matter though. Rambler/AMC was known for its great inline six cylinder engines for decades before Jeep was acquired. You can hardly fault them ... reliable, durable, smooth-running, economical...

 

Why? Oh, I don't know.

http://youtu.be/RKmWTLcn3Uw

 

I have several Jeeps with AMC motors myself and they are a love hate relationship as I have always been a Chevy guy. At least nobody is asking how to install a Ford motor. Gonna go hide now......

 

I guess I am a purest. I like AMC in Jeeps. Not Chevy or Ford. Not that I'm against them but I'd keep AMC in a jeep before I put in anything else.

 

Jeep used Chrysler, GM, Ford, Audi, Dana, Spicer, Borg-Warner, Willys-Overland, Kaiser-Frazier, and probably a dozen others.

 

401 Wagoneer wheelie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAm2KRY4mE8

BTW parts outsourcing was clearly because AMC did not have the volume and resources to develop all their components in-house. However, they did engine design and manufacture quite well on their own.