Cj3b - Herm Power Steering Kit

I have been planning on using Herm’s Reverse Ford power steering kit on my 3b for some time. While installing today, I found out that the stock front cross member does not allow the steering box to be placed far enough forward to get a good drag link angle.

Has anyone else used this kit on a 3b or other flat fender?

If I have to modify the cross member, I may just sell the kit and go with a manual Saginaw box out front.

Thoughts or advice

RVSwisher

 

When I look at Herm's site and the customer pictures of the install there is a 3A shown and you can see the not-straight draglink. Unless you found a much longer pitman arm (which will make the steering faster and more twitchy) I see no other way to correct that.

 

Yes, the manual Saginaw units work well in a flatty but don't let your thumbs/fingers linger between the spokes of the steering wheel while in the rocks. It hurts.

With the exception that it is perhaps a bit less obvious, I see no advantage in Herm's kit.

 

The only advantage I see is Herm trying to produce a "kit" that the average guy can install with out a lot of custom fab work being required.
With that being said, I love my Saginaw.

 

I'm waiting on some info from Advance Adaptors... want to see what they recommend. I'm looking at doing the same on my 3B.

 

Herms kit:
Less visually obtrusive,
Allows for a wider winch
Less fabrication skills needed for the box to clear the crossmember more to clear the motor mounts.

 

Or one can use the long neck C3 Saginaw box and not have to mess with the cross member at all. I actually think a JK box would be less work than Herm's kit if one is into doing things backward. It also has a long neck.

 

I used an intermediate CJ PS bracket on mine, no crossmember modification needed.

 

Finger breaking from steering box feedback (been there with an 8N).is that feedback also common to the manual saginaw units? do the reverse Ford rotation boxes prevent that from happening?

 

I think you get the feedback from any manual system. The overall ratio and degree of slop will factor into what is actually felt. In my experience, a relatively tight PS system eliminates 90+ percent of it.

 

Advance told me their kits cant be used with the 4 cyl and stock set up on a 3B like mine? Huh? Wha? I asked why and got no reply… anyone have an answer that may help me?

 

I keep hearing how the Herm thing is problematic. I think he tried to reinvent the wheel, and it isn't working out well. The Saginaw conversion has been done for a lot of good reasons for 50-plus years. Lop off the stock column, Borgeson joints and collapsible shaft, tunnel through the crossmember, Saggy 4 turn box on an Advance mount on the frame. 6-inch-ish pitman, and don't look back. Any half-assed jeeper-fabricator can do it.

 

I would guess it has to do with the routing of the steering shaft around the motor mount. We originally did the advanced adapters manual steering conversion on our 55 cj5 with f head around 40 years ago and I remember my father making several phone calls to AA. The solution they came up with was to extend the original column. The intermediate shaft then passed under the motor mount to the steering box. It was far from ideal and it was too much of an angle for the u-joint at the bottom of the column, you could feel the bind when turning the wheel. I do think now it might work if one was to use a double u-joint and a support bearing on the intermediate shaft.

 

My CJ had a manual box adapted to it when I bought it. Years later went wheeling and clipped a tree with the back of the front tire. The wheel spun out of my hand and the brody knob hit my forearm so hard it broke off (damn near my arm as well). That was with the stock steering dampener installed.

Removed the brody knob and installed a PS box.

Manual boxes are susceptible to "kickback"" without the hydraulic assist to help "lock" the box in place. The internal piston runs with a column of fluid on either side. In order to get the pitman to move, it is forced to push the piston and force the fluid out behind it. This creates a natural dampening.

 

Unless you are in the straight ahead position. There the valve is neutral and the fluid alone keeps the box steady.
I tried using a simplistic explanation to encompass both situations.

 

I've done so many Saginaw PS conversions I've lost count, and these can be done by most reasonably handy Jeep guys. Use a forward after market steering mount made of 3/8 plate. I also make a brace that braces the braces the box to the opposite frame rail. If you can weld or have access to someone who can weld convert the drag link to high steering to move it away from the frame. I used DOM tubing to make it near unbreakable.