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225 lifter noise

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Brett weissenbuehler

New Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Have a 1944 flat fender i am helping a friend work on it has a 225 dauntless v6 and has lifter tick while driving above 1800 rpm /under load ,but quiet at idle oil pressure good 20 idle 50 above 1500 rpm . Any thoughts. Thanks
 
It could possibly be timing a little too advanced. This would be the best case scenario which is easy to fix. Since you only note the tick above 1800 rpm, where the spark advance is in play, I suggest retarding the timing just a very little bit at a time and see if that resolves. Take note of timing before making adjustments so you can put it back where it was if adjustment doesn't resolve the issue or has a negative impact on performane.

Could also be a bad lifter, a worn push rod, or wear on the rocker shaft or arm. You will need to remove the valve covers, inspect each rocker, checking for excessive lash (looseness) turning engine by hand until it is at TDC on compression stroke so the valves for that cylinder are completely closed.
 
That is covered in the service manual, but in general I usually start around 5* BTDC, but a lot of things vary from engine to engine, and there is not really a good answer to the question of "what timing should be". That said, you don't even need to go there. From your description the engine is idling and running good, so it is already close to where it needs to be.

What I am suggesting is, put a timing light on it before making any adjustment and write down where it is set now. Then, in very small increments at a time, retard timing one or two degrees and take it for a drive. The goal is to find out if the adjustment resolves the "tick" without negatively effecting performance. If it doesn't resolve the issue, put it back to where you found it, and start checking for another cause.
 
Oldpappy said:
That is covered in the service manual, but in general I usually start around 5* BTDC, but a lot of things vary from engine to engine, and there is not really a good answer to the question of "what timing should be". That said, you don't even need to go there. From your description the engine is idling and running good, so it is already close to where it needs to be.

What I am suggesting is, put a timing light on it before making any adjustment and write down where it is set now. Then, in very small increments at a time, retard timing one or two degrees and take it for a drive. The goal is to find out if the adjustment resolves the "tick" without negatively effecting performance. If it doesn't resolve the issue, put it back to where you found it, and start checking for another cause.
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Thanks
 
Maybe a flat cam lobe. The oil today is not able to protect our older flat tappet engines despite saying it is backwards compatible. It is not and that is a lie. I just built a 68 M715 with a fully rebuilt Buick 350. I had to go through 5 engines before finding one that was rebuildable and not needing special machine work to correct it. Those problems were not related to oil but every one of them had flat cams. I also suspect my 225 in my cJ has a flat cam. I ran mobil 1 for years and that was a mistake. Every early engine we own needs high ZDDP oil. Same with the v8's. Make sure your friend is using a high ZDDP oil. If he is not it is only a matter of time before the cam is toast. And new cams now are chinese blanks and just garbage. This is one of the cams I pulled and it is going flat. I pulled some that were near round...

 
Set timing to 5deg btdc, set your dwell and retest. If you have a dial indicator you can check lobe wear pretty easily. You will probably have at least a couple that are more flat that the others. I had two that were much worse than the others. Not so easy to check valve springs but a vacuum reading might point to this as a problem and that's easy to do.

I add 4oz ZDDP additive to 5 quarts EVERY oil change. This will cover 3 oil changes per bottle. I just buy regular 10-30 and add it to that. You could go with Rotella or something similar but I like to know the exact amount.
 
A tick at speed under load suggests pre-ignition (ping).
Or maybe an exhaust leak - that can make a ticking noise.
You could improvise a stethoscope using a piece of fuel or vacuum hose.
Be careful not to direct hot exhaust gas into your ear if you find a leak.
 
53A1 said:
Set timing to 5deg btdc, set your dwell and retest. If you have a dial indicator you can check lobe wear pretty easily. You will probably have at least a couple that are more flat that the others. I had two that were much worse than the others. Not so easy to check valve springs but a vacuum reading might point to this as a problem and that's easy to do.

I add 4oz ZDDP additive to 5 quarts EVERY oil change. This will cover 3 oil changes per bottle. I just buy regular 10-30 and add it to that. You could go with Rotella or something similar but I like to know the exact amount.
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In a lengthy conversation with mike owner of TA performance about keeping cams alive he recommended STP motor oil treatment in the blue bottle for the ZDDP. That most NASCAR drivers use it and that should say something about it effectiveness. He also made a recommendation for guys that let their classic cars sit between use to start it and give it a very brief rev to 1500 to splash the cam on warm up. This seemed to make sense so I do that. My CJ sits a lot now. I use Valvoline VR-1 and STP now. I believe my Isky cam is already flat though. Can't wait for my new NOS 71 225 to go in. Hope the OP finds the source of the tick. I hate noises in a CJ...LOL
 
Kaiserjeeps said:
He also made a recommendation for guys that let their classic cars sit between use to start it and give it a very brief rev to 1500 to splash the cam on warm up.
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This is very smart advise.

I do this with all my old engines. If you don't you may notice valve train noise for longer than desired and I discovered even though you have oil pressure, that doesn't mean the upper valve train is good to go, especially in the Buick oddfire. I don't have this problem at all because I start the engine and bring it to 1500 or 2k for two minutes (no load).

Do this at least once a week. I have a ready to go 225 on a test stand and I do the same for it.
 
Brett weissenbuehler said:
Have a 1944 flat fender i am helping a friend work on it has a 225 dauntless v6 and has lifter tick while driving above 1800 rpm /under load ,but quiet at idle oil pressure good 20 idle 50 above 1500 rpm . Any thoughts. Thanks
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So quiet at idle, but noticeable tick above 1800 rpm at speed. What about just running the engine up to 2000 rpm while stationary? Any tick when rev’ed, but not under load?
 
If an exhaust tick, you would expect the exhaust gas velocity to increase with speed and load.
Matches the observed noises ...
 
question for everyone here, I have no lifter noise in my odd fire v6. I also have two Cummins diesel engines, three deere diesel engines and one v6 Toyota engine. Every engine gets Delvac 5w40 esp synthetic oil. It is a Mobile product with up to 1500ppm zinc designed for heavy construction usage and it can be used in gas engines in heavy service applications according to Mobile. Am I looking problems by not adding zinic to this oil?
 
ralph zepp said:
Am I looking problems by not adding zinic to this oil?
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I don't want to start another oil debate so I'm not going to talk about brands.

You only need 1400 ppm so you're good.

I've used diesel oil many times in the past but I got frustrated with the mixed reports on declining amounts of Zink. I now use the ZDDP additive which will add 5000 ppm Zink to 5 gal oil per 16 oz bottle. To get around 1400 ppm, I use 4 oz per 5 gal of regular 10/30 every oil change.

The Deisel oil route is cheaper.
 
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