I'm hoping someone on here can help me out. I'm restoring my late fathers cj5. I don't have a title or registration for it but I just found the serial plate on it. Can anyone tell me the year or any info based on the serial number? I've been looking but I'm unable to find anything close. It does have the 225 vs dauntless with a T90 and D18. I know dad bought it from a junkyard and they trans wasn't original and the registration he used wasn't for this. serial # is 1412 11786. Thanks
cj5 vin identification
- Thread starter J.H.
- Start date
With the Jeep coming from a junkyard this looks to be a Frankenstein Jeep.
What is the VIN on the registration your dad used? Could the Jeep's original VIN be on the paperwork? That's not likely but worth a try.
There should be a serial number stamped into the passenger frame rail (others here can give you a more exact place to look).That number would give you the year of the frame at least.
Does the V6 appear to have the original engine mounts?
Pictures please.
So I guess I'll give some more info on my Jeep. I attached a few more pictures. Dad had this on the road and used it to drive my mother to the hospital during a snowstorm when she was in labor with me. I remember him driving it when I was like 5 years old, then it was a woods Jeep. Fast forward to my teen years and my older brother had it on the road during high school. At that point it was more bondo then metal. I then got it from him, and tore it down to the frame to do a frame up resto mod. That was 25 years ago. I got back into it about 3 years ago after raising my 2 kids. The 225 that was in it had a cracked block. I bought a rebuilt one from S&J engine that I have bolted in now. I rebuilt the trans and transfer case. As far as body, It's all repro steel now. That's where I'm at currently. I just test fitted the tub & fenders and I'm getting ready for paint. The only other piece of the original cj I kept is the cowl area. It had rusted completely across the floors and quarter panels so I kept it for the dash layout, battery bracket, ect. I do have the windshield as well as the hood that was on it but neither are in good shape. I was told that there wasn't any ser tag left on it, but I stumbled across one last weekend. The Registration that they used to register it got lost as did the sticker from the windshield. I know they said the vin didn't match the jeep. I'm trying to find the where I wrote the frame number down. I found it when I sandblasted the frame and wrote it down, but haven't been able to find it again on the frame. I was hoping that maybe this would be an easier way to get a replacement registration so I can put it on the road this summer. I haven't posted before on this site, but it's given me a ton of info.
Attachments
I forgot to mention, the frame appears to have the correct- original engine mounts for the 225. I'd have to find and recheck the original block, but I believe it was a '66. It had a civilian hood without the snorkel hole. Jeep was painted a light- sky blue. firewall, inside of fenders and grille were a yellow color, Steel 15" wheels. Willys stamped tailgate.
jeepdaddy2000
Well-Known Member
There are a couple of telltales.
Your bellhousing is two piece, so that puts it before 71.
You have a tapered rear axle, which puts it before 70.
Where is your windshield wiper motor(s)?
What transmission do you have?
Do you have any of the original light lenses? An old trick is to look at them closely. The year of manufacture is stamped on them. That would put them within a year or so of the Jeep manufacture.
Your bellhousing is two piece, so that puts it before 71.
You have a tapered rear axle, which puts it before 70.
Where is your windshield wiper motor(s)?
What transmission do you have?
Do you have any of the original light lenses? An old trick is to look at them closely. The year of manufacture is stamped on them. That would put them within a year or so of the Jeep manufacture.
Note these Jeeps did not come from the factory with a T-90 and V6 combo.
For 3-speeds, they had either the T-86 or T-14.
You can look for a tag under one of the top cover bolts, or the transmission type cast into the side of the transmission.
These transmissions have cast-in marks T-90, T-86 or T-14, though the T-14 can alternately be marked as 1302.
A 225 with the T-90 is near certain a four-cylinder Jeep converted to the V6.
This was done a lot, and just as good as the factory V6 if done well.
If you have doubts, post a picture looking down at the gears.
You also might look at the casting numbers on your engine.
I recall we have a casting numbers document in the Tech section.
Now for the bad news.
Donnie (Keys5a) is right.
1412 11786 is the VIN for a '62-65 2-door Wagoneer (1412) with the 230 OHC engine (10000 through 49999).
Look here: https://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/vin62-64.html
Most likely scenario is someone used the VIN plate and title from the Wagoneer to register a Jeep without a title.
May have been naively practical at the time, but not legal in any state AFAIK.
Question is how to deal with this.
For 3-speeds, they had either the T-86 or T-14.
You can look for a tag under one of the top cover bolts, or the transmission type cast into the side of the transmission.
These transmissions have cast-in marks T-90, T-86 or T-14, though the T-14 can alternately be marked as 1302.
A 225 with the T-90 is near certain a four-cylinder Jeep converted to the V6.
This was done a lot, and just as good as the factory V6 if done well.
If you have doubts, post a picture looking down at the gears.
You also might look at the casting numbers on your engine.
I recall we have a casting numbers document in the Tech section.
Now for the bad news.
Donnie (Keys5a) is right.
1412 11786 is the VIN for a '62-65 2-door Wagoneer (1412) with the 230 OHC engine (10000 through 49999).
Look here: https://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/vin62-64.html
Most likely scenario is someone used the VIN plate and title from the Wagoneer to register a Jeep without a title.
May have been naively practical at the time, but not legal in any state AFAIK.
Question is how to deal with this.
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It also has a small hole transfercase that would not have come in a V6 Jeep. Another possibility is that it's a V6 Jeep, but a used T90/small hole transfercase got swapped in when the T-86 blew up.
Yep - something a junkyard might do.
Yeah, this think has definitely been pieced together. I rebuilt the trans so I'm sure it's the T90A and they used a made shift adapter the only had 2 bolts holding it together and ran it for 30 years, lol. I'm not worried about any of it matching, and I've been fixing everything as I go to make it right, like a correct adapter, lol. Now I'm getting ready to paint and hopefully be driving it this summer so I'm going to need to do something to register it. At least I now know what the vin tag was for and why it wasn't making any sense to me. Maybe I'll just use what I have and see.
For American cars, the date code on signal lenses was somewhat accurate in determining to model year, mainly because every year had a new body style. When you find the date code on a lense on a Jeep (like “62” for example), that is the year the manufacturer changed to that type lense. That same style lense with the “62” might have been used by Kaiser unchanged for 10 or more model years. Now if you have a ‘66 Chevelle, the date code on the tail light will indicate the model year. A ‘65 Chevelle and a ‘67 Chevelle have a completely different tail light lense because the body and trim changed significantly nearly every year.
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As far as dating your CJ5 by features, there doesn’t sound like there is much that is original on your Jeep. The chassis will have the serial number (unique last 5 or 6 digits). This is located on the top of the right frame rail just forward of the firewall. The V6 frame has different engine mounts, and these were introduced in 1966 and ran through 1971.
The snorkel cover on the side of the hood and top bow sockets on the rear body corners were phased out in the 1966 model year. The Willys stamped tailgate was phased out around 1963 when Kaiser took over, the sometime around late 1970 went to “Jeep” for AMC’s takeover.. In between (‘64-‘70), there was a raised blank in the center of the tailgate. Some time around 1968/69, the windshield glass went to an arched top. There are many other detail changes over the years.
Because of the modular nature of our Jeeps, hoods, windshields, tailgates, etc can be easily changed, so these are not reliable features to accurately determine the model year for 50+ year old vehicles.
The snorkel cover on the side of the hood and top bow sockets on the rear body corners were phased out in the 1966 model year. The Willys stamped tailgate was phased out around 1963 when Kaiser took over, the sometime around late 1970 went to “Jeep” for AMC’s takeover.. In between (‘64-‘70), there was a raised blank in the center of the tailgate. Some time around 1968/69, the windshield glass went to an arched top. There are many other detail changes over the years.
Because of the modular nature of our Jeeps, hoods, windshields, tailgates, etc can be easily changed, so these are not reliable features to accurately determine the model year for 50+ year old vehicles.
jeepdaddy2000
Well-Known Member
Wrong VIN plates are a common issue with vintage CJ's as the original plate was affixed to the fire wall. These were easily moved from body to body, or even vehicle to vehicle.
If the current title reflects the VIN, IMHO, the best bet is to simply move on. While not right and maybe not legal, that VIN is currently registered to your vehicle.
If it's an issue, I would contact your DMV and ask some hypothetical questions on how your situation. Many states have a system for a lost VIN for vehicles prior to 1976.
duffer
Rodent Power, Bozeman, Montana
Not necessarily. The T90 was the primary fix for the deficiencies in the T86AA. I have an example of that parked in the driveway. The However, D18 pictured would not have been stock as all the V6's got the large index case.