Holy Guacamole!

[blalp!]

Be a good time to install tera-low gear set while it is out and apart!

Say no to peer pressure…say no to peer pressure…say no to peer pressure.
All joking aside, I was thinking long and hard about it. If I went 3.73 gears, I would go with the low gear kit. With the T19, and rest of the current configuration, the crawl ratio is 83.64:1. For the ~$1,000 low gear set, and 3.73 axles, the crawl ratio would be 74.25:1. Taking up space in the garage is a D30, front D44, center flanged D44, and semi float D60, all with 3.73 gears. Knowing I have possible axles upgrades with gearing that allows to mix and match, it’s hard to not get lost in those weeds. In either scenario, I would need a traction aid. Currently there is a Power-Loc in the front D27, but the rear Trac-Loc needs to be replaced. Thanks to another forum member, I have a Torsen style limited slip diff set up with 3.73s that was originally slated for Brown Jeep, that could go in Guac. I have so many options, that I can’t figure out what the “right” answer is. So, Ol Fogie; you may not have realized it, but you just re-opened Pandora’s box after I finally thought I had it closed. Perhaps I should start a poll on this…

 

[Norcal69]

Say no to peer pressure…say no to peer pressure…say no to peer pressure.
All joking aside, I was thinking long and hard about it. If I went 3.73 gears, I would go with the low gear kit. With the T19, and rest of the current configuration, the crawl ratio is 83.64:1. For the ~$1,000 low gear set, and 3.73 axles, the crawl ratio would be 74.25:1. Taking up space in the garage is a D30, front D44, center flanged D44, and semi float D60, all with 3.73 gears. Knowing I have possible axles upgrades with gearing that allows to mix and match, it’s hard to not get lost in those weeds. In either scenario, I would need a traction aid. Currently there is a Power-Loc in the front D27, but the rear Trac-Loc needs to be replaced. Thanks to another forum member, I have a Torsen style limited slip diff set up with 3.73s that was originally slated for Brown Jeep, that could go in Guac. I have so many options, that I can’t figure out what the “right” answer is. So, Ol Fogie; you may not have realized it, but you just re-opened Pandora’s box after I finally thought I had it closed. Perhaps I should start a poll on this…

What are you planning to do with this Jeep?
What are you envisioning it to look like?
Are you wanting to build it for a one time Rubicon trip?
Is the rest of it's existence going to be FS roads and ice cream runs?
As the pendulum swings toward rock crawling, the farther away it gets from daily driver friendly.
You can have allot of fun on the Rubicon in a Jeep that is spring under with 3-4" of lift and 33" tires. Reasonable crawl ratios in the 60's-70's will be very capable and tackle every 33" tire capable trail in the country.

 

[blalp!]

What are you planning to do with this Jeep?
What are you envisioning it to look like?
Are you wanting to build it for a one time Rubicon trip?
Is the rest of it's existence going to be FS roads and ice cream runs?
As the pendulum swings toward rock crawling, the farther away it gets from daily driver friendly.
You can have allot of fun on the Rubicon in a Jeep that is spring under with 3-4" of lift and 33" tires. Reasonable crawl ratios in the 60's-70's will be very capable and tackle every 33" tire capable trail in the country.

The whole idea behind Guacamole was to go out to the Rubicon trail (at least once), and be a capable rock crawler. Brown Jeep is the FS road / ice cream mobile. That said, I have a fear of doing the wrong thing, without enough experience to know what is the right thing. Hence my over thinking the options.

 

[Ol Fogie]

As Norcal69 said It all boils down to planning what you may be doing with the jeep in the long run. One trip to the Rubicon then what will you be using it for the next few years? More trips to the Rubicon ? Or a weekend camping, fishing, hunting, road trips and lite wheeling trips with friends and family? Just thinking out loud here and JMO of course. I might be tempted to install the tera low gearing, with the T-19 and then the very low axle gearing so to get my crawl ratio where it would be the ultimate for the Rubicon trip. Then after the Rubicon trip swap back in the Axle gearing of 3,73 for your road trip usage and just leave the tera-low gear set and The T-19 intact and in reserve for the next Rubicon trip. Once the R and P gear contact patterns are set for both of the gear sets, swapping them back and forth in the same case should be a reasonably easy job with some careful planning. Just carefully record and store the shim packs and corresponding bearings for each gear set so not to need a new gear contact pattern and preload set up at each swap. Sounds like a lot of work swapping the axle gearing, but with careful planning it should be within reason. Probably could be done in one day especially if you just leave your deep gearing ring gears mounted to your traction devices and simply swap the 3.73 gearing that is already mounted to their open carriers for your daily use. One other thought, with the 3.73 gearing, likely you would not need an overdrive for daily road trips where as if the deep gearing is left intact you likely would. The saved cost of an overdrive would likely pay for the tera-low gear set.

 

[blalp!]

Received a care package from Ruff Stuff. This stuff is beefy! While I meant to get boomerang shackles, these are 5” as BDS recommends longer than stock to account for the military wrap. The BDS 2” YJ kit should be shipping out the beginning of the week (they had to make a bracket I probably won’t use). Once the springs are in I can finalize my steering plans.

 

[blalp!]

A closer look with the transfer case on the bench revealed some chipping on the on the outside edge of the center gear. My guess is from an issue with the overdrive that was once in the Jeep. All the other gears seem okay. I do have spares.

Pulled out the CJ7 pedal set to keep things moving forward. Two well know members here have shared their adaptation of the late CJ pedals. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Another piece I have been researching and shopping for is a steering box. Timsresort suggested a 4 and change turn box with a casting number for an 800 series unit. That ratio isn’t very common in the 800 or 808 boxes and the higher quality rebuilders are proud of them. This has directed my research to torsion bars in the Saginaw boxes. Apparently the diameter of the bar affects the road feel vs easy of turning efforts. The smaller the torsion bar, the easier it is to turn (more power boost). This may make a 3.5 turn box easier in the rocks. Although, it will probably be harder on the box, as well as, hotter running. More research to do here.

There was another mistake with my Ruff Stuff order. I definitely was the one who made the mistake with the shackles. I’m unsure if the width of the shackle mounts was the sales person or myself. I know I wrote the number down correctly, but I may have put the wrong suffix on that part number when reading off the shackle mount number. Regardless, I ordered the large and small diameter DOM on line as the set that I was billed for and received is 1/4” too narrow. When the DOM pieces arrive, it will be quick to cut and true up on the lathe. It was a $50 mistake, but easier and cheaper just to order what I need and move forward.

 

[blalp!]

Spent some time playing with pedals over the weekend (CJ7 and Jeepster Commando). Here is the Commando pedal bracket sitting nicely in place where it could mount between the firewall and dash.

Here is the profile differences between the two sets. As many here already know, the Commando brake pedal’s bend is too low and interferes with the steering column. Because it’s cast steel, I didn’t want to risk it breaking as a result of heating and bending.


I found a reasonably priced intermediate pedal set, and they arrived today. Here with the Commando bracket loosely clamped to the firewall, the pedals were slid into place. This should work nicely with some final adjustment.


With the pedals about an inch or two to the left, there will be a little more foot room on the skinny pedal. If this works out well, I’ll modify the CJ7 set to match for Brown Jeep.

 

[blalp!]

BDS said the order should be shipping out this week. While I wait, I’ve been focused on the hanging pedals. I thought with a little grinding of the pedal bracket, the pedals could be raised high enough to work without the need to move the harness.
Before:


After:


That didn’t work, so I pulled the harness out of the firewall. This is what I uncovered.


With the harness out of the way, I was able to clamp the pedal bracket where I thought it should be.


Unfortunately, the brake pedal pad hits the steering column about 1.5” off the floor. In the event of an emergency, I’d like to have full throw of the brake master. The options to think about are: A) Modify a CJ7 brake pedal to work with this setup. B) Move the steering column to the left 3” with an intermediate column. Or C) Modify the pedal bracket and/or firewall so the pedals can be moved further to the right.

 

[Buildflycrash]

BDS said the order should be shipping out this week. While I wait, I’ve been focused on the hanging pedals. I thought with a little grinding of the pedal bracket, the pedals could be raised high enough to work without the need to move the harness.
Before:
View attachment 104735

After:
View attachment 104736

That didn’t work, so I pulled the harness out of the firewall. This is what I uncovered.
View attachment 104737

With the harness out of the way, I was able to clamp the pedal bracket where I thought it should be.
View attachment 104738

Unfortunately, the brake pedal pad hits the steering column about 1.5” off the floor. In the event of an emergency, I’d like to have full throw of the brake master. The options to think about are: A) Modify a CJ7 brake pedal to work with this setup. B) Move the steering column to the left 3” with an intermediate column. Or C) Modify the pedal bracket and/or firewall so the pedals can be moved further to the right.

I had to do a little cutting and bending on the YJ pedals to make them fit well. Worth the effort.

 

[timsresort]

A and C. Modify the pedal, and/or bracket. Moving the column isn't necessary, and you don't want that anyway.

 

[blalp!]

A and C. Modify the pedal, and/or bracket. Moving the column isn't necessary, and you don't want that anyway.

A and C are definitely the easiest in that order. The intermediate tubs are very similar and have the column 3” to the left. The advantage is the steering shaft clears the exhaust manifold. If I were to go that route, I would source an intermediate dash too. I’m not sure I could bring myself to cutting up the existing dash. Honestly, this dash really makes the Jeep.

 

[Norcal69]

A and C are definitely the easiest in that order. The intermediate tubs are very similar and have the column 3” to the left. The advantage is the steering shaft clears the exhaust manifold. If I were to go that route, I would source an intermediate dash too. I’m not sure I could bring myself to cutting up the existing dash. Honestly, this dash really makes the Jeep.

Have you looked at the pedal set installation at the beginning of the build thread for Steve's Jeep?
I installed a set of pedals from a CJ7 and heated/bent them to form to the floorboard at full depressed swing.
They seemed to work quite well for all users.

 

[blalp!]

Have you looked at the pedal set installation at the beginning of the build thread for Steve's Jeep?
I installed a set of pedals from a CJ7 and heated/bent them to form to the floorboard at full depressed swing.
They seemed to work quite well for all users.

I have, extensively. The only question I had was how far the brake pedal was to the throttle.

 

[Norcal69]

I have, extensively. The only question I had was how far the brake pedal was to the throttle.

You can see the factory throttle pedal coming down from the firewall.
I added a floor mounted pedal lever to press on the stock rod.

 

[blalp!]

BDS YJ kit arrived yesterday.

This meant I needed work on cutting and turning the DOM to 2.5” as I mistakenly ordered 2.25” wide shackle hangers from Ruff Stuff a few weeks ago.
12” stick of DOM (Before)


Two pieces done.

 

[bigjohn]

I love this thread. I’ll be following along.
As far as steering, when I finally came out of the steering rabbit hole, it was a variable ratio 3.25 turn big bore gear intended for a 70’s Cadillac if I recall. I called redhead with my parameters and that’s what fit. It was a bolt in replacement, input, output and power ports identical to existing on my 75. I couldn’t be happier. On the road it’s not twitchy, and on the trail, shaving a full turn off of the lock to lock is a real blessing.
As far as gears, with the ability to run a dauntless to 300 rpm’s and pull them back up, that really opens up your crawl ratio options. On the ‘19 rubicon run and countless other trails and runs, I’ve rarely needed lower gearing. This with 33” tires, 3.73’s and a 2.46 Dana 20 low ratio (thanks again Nick Miller for that). I’m on 35’s now and looking to bump the ratio due to power loss. I’m still happy with the crawling. Again, the 258’s ability to drag rpm’s down to 400 and pull back up helps a lot.
All that to say, 3.73 is the simple route that would probably work fine assuming you’re keeping tire size 33” or under. 4.88 or 5.38 would be fun and a killer crawler, but necessitate an overdrive to really enjoy on the road, and adding another part to fail. I always think 4.10-4.27 is a great all around ratio. The 4.27’s can get expensive though.
Sorry to take the thread back in time. I just wanted to share a few thoughts

 

[blalp!]

Now to sort out the front rail ends and get them ready for the new shackle hangers. The left rail has been repaired.


When the repair was done, they welded the to 1/4” box section to the edge of the C channel as apposed to inside the channel. That makes the top of the rail wider.

That meant there wasn’t room for the winch mount, so they cut into the top of the right side rail.

I’m tentatively thinking cutting the left rail box section so it fits inside the channel and extending it to the radiator crossmember in preparation for the Saginaw box. The right rail may get the opposite treatment so as to make the top of the rail into the correct width. I had talked with @timsresort a while back about this, and I agree with his thoughts of trying to keep the rail looking original.

 

[blalp!]

I love this thread. I’ll be following along.
As far as steering, when I finally came out of the steering rabbit hole, it was a variable ratio 3.25 turn big bore gear intended for a 70’s Cadillac if I recall. I called redhead with my parameters and that’s what fit. It was a bolt in replacement, input, output and power ports identical to existing on my 75. I couldn’t be happier. On the road it’s not twitchy, and on the trail, shaving a full turn off of the lock to lock is a real blessing.
As far as gears, with the ability to run a dauntless to 300 rpm’s and pull them back up, that really opens up your crawl ratio options. On the ‘19 rubicon run and countless other trails and runs, I’ve rarely needed lower gearing. This with 33” tires, 3.73’s and a 2.46 Dana 20 low ratio (thanks again Nick Miller for that). I’m on 35’s now and looking to bump the ratio due to power loss. I’m still happy with the crawling. Again, the 258’s ability to drag rpm’s down to 400 and pull back up helps a lot.
All that to say, 3.73 is the simple route that would probably work fine assuming you’re keeping tire size 33” or under. 4.88 or 5.38 would be fun and a killer crawler, but necessitate an overdrive to really enjoy on the road, and adding another part to fail. I always think 4.10-4.27 is a great all around ratio. The 4.27’s can get expensive though.
Sorry to take the thread back in time. I just wanted to share a few thoughts

Thank you for following along @bigjohn. This is my first real modified project, and I’m having fun as I learn and grow with the support of the members here.

I appreciate your thoughts on the gears. I put the transfer case rebuild on the back burner until the springs are in and I know how much lift I actually achieve. If the drive shaft isn’t too steep, I think I’d like to go with the Dana 20, and I see your point with the 4.27s. Around here, the 3.73s will probably be fine with the 2.46 D20 and 33s. There are some advantages to the D18, so there isn’t a clear winner.

The steering box is the next item in my list. The 4 turn boxes are proving to be hard to find and/or expensive. There are some YJ boxes in the area that are 3.5 turn and reasonably priced. Like you said, I can always change it out later.

 

[compostwerks]

Now to sort out the front rail ends and get them ready for the new shackle hangers. The left rail has been repaired.
View attachment 104825
View attachment 104826
When the repair was done, they welded the to 1/4” box section to the edge of the C channel as apposed to inside the channel. That makes the top of the rail wider.
View attachment 104827
That meant there wasn’t room for the winch mount, so they cut into the top of the right side rail.
View attachment 104828
I’m tentatively thinking cutting the left rail box section so it fits inside the channel and extending it to the radiator crossmember in preparation for the Saginaw box. The right rail may get the opposite treatment so as to make the top of the rail into the correct width. I had talked with @timsresort a while back about this, and I agree with his thoughts of trying to keep the rail looking original.

Shaun, you're welcome to pull any frame parts off my 58' rot box. I'm getting rid of it this spring anyway. That one horn looks a bit rough?....Pete

 

[blalp!]

Dug out the plasma cutter this morning to tackle the left rail end. I cut a window to get a better look inside. The thick angle iron that was used to box and repair the damage, ran all the way back to where the rail turns up. However, it was only welded part way. I used some scrap metal to make a guide along the top of the rail to cut a clean edge with the plasma cutter. Now the cross section of the rail is no longer a trapezoid. There is about a 1/4” left where the angle iron turns upward. That will be beveled for welding the new box section. The shackle hanger was cut off. Whoever welded it, sure had some good penetration. The new shackle hanger is clamped in to figure out measurements. I would like the front axle as far forward as possible to avoid tire to fender bottom contact. This is the stopping point for today.