1959 Cj-5 302 Swap. Help Me To Help Myself......

[ScottInAZ]

as the title alludes to, I bought myself a 1959 Willys CJ-5 that someone unknown had started and not completed a Ford 302 swap into.... MOST of it seems pretty well done. Has a cradle style engine mount, so no idea who made that.... Toploader transmission directly bolted to the stock Dana transfer case (with a Saturn OD), with the front wheel drive fully connected, and functional. What I need to do is finish off the small minor details like:

Exhaust:

Where I currently sit, is I have exhaust headers for a 1995 era Bronco that are rear dump, angled to fit between the tub and axles/starter/transfer case on the passengers side, and between the steering gear and bellhousing on the drivers side. These should be here this week. Due to the engine mount, a center dump block hugger header wasnt going to work.... too much stuff in the way, and these seem to fit the bill.... we will see.

Clutch:
No idea on the clutch. I dont have much of an area to work with, and the swinging pedals currently installed foul on the steering column. I will either "clearance" these and make them work (the upper bracket seems to fit nicely) or get a late model set of pedals that will already clear, and make them fit the under dash area.

Brakes:
Stock brakes at the wheels, with the fronts having new hoses... nothing between the firewall mounted master cylinder and the wheels... I have a line kit on the way to make new lines for this... THIS IS A PRIORITY, I need brakes to be able to move this thing easily around my yard, which is on a hilltop... I dont want to have to recover it from the neighbors yard down the hill...... THAT WOULD BE BAD.....

Steering:
Currently have the stock '59 column, box and linkage... dont know if this will work, and its a bit notchy.... may need to upgrade to a later model, both for clearance and also for utility... what sayeth the board here.... Im open at this point

Interior:
Simplest part... I dont have one.. bare tub, no gas tank under the seat. May reinstall one here, may install one under the back end after removing the pintle supports.... again, im open here....

Firewall:
there isnt one.... I have some sheetmetal panels that look like an angry beaver tried to install something, but its all full of holes, and im not real enthused about using any of it.... Time to buy a brake, and get bending I think..... I have some floor tub repair patches to make anyway where someone got excited with a torch....

Cooling system:
I have what looks like a late model radiator, but its too wide for the frame rails to sit straight up, but if I lay it back a few degrees, it will work.... this is OK with me, as I plan on going electric fan, and some dimwit cut the core support off the grill panel... Ill have to fabricate this from scratch.....

enough typing, heres a few pics to whet the appetite and get this started off right....

 

[PeteL]

Welcome.

Just a suggestion - One question at a time might help in getting clearer discussion and more useful answers.

 

[ScottInAZ]

Welcome.

Just a suggestion - One question at a time might help in getting clearer discussion and more useful answers.

No worries. The first post was mostly a “this is where it sits” type post to acclimate us all with my mess, and establish a baseline. As the build progresses, it’s gonna either be an update, or a single question on a current issue.

 

[PeteL]

Looks like you have both something solid to work with, and a blank slate as far as no worries about originality. Fun.

 

[ScottInAZ]

Looks like you have both something solid to work with, and a blank slate as far as no worries about originality. Fun.

yeah, the “bones” are good, it’s fleshing them out that’s gonna be the challenge

 

[homersdog]

Looks like a good starting point. As far as steering I would go ahead and do a Saginaw conversion now before investing any money keeping the Ross box working.

 

[jpflat2a]

Will it run?
Oil in the gear boxes?
I'd start with a compression and leakage test on the engine.
Then I would get it running and not do anything else until that is done.
If you have to rig a radiator, then so be it.
I wouldn't deal with any sheet metal work, firewall, etc.
Not worth doing any more customization in and around this engine conversion until then.
My 0.2 worth.

 

[ScottInAZ]

Will it run?
Oil in the gear boxes?
I'd start with a compression and leakage test on the engine.
Then I would get it running and not do anything else until that is done.
If you have to rig a radiator, then so be it.
I wouldn't deal with any sheet metal work, firewall, etc.
Not worth doing any more customization in and around this engine conversion until then.
My 0.2 worth.

Ill know compression numbers next week when the PROPER starter gets here.... somebody put an "automatic" starter in it, and it ate the bendix gear..... Flywheel ring gear is new

Oil in the gearboxes and engine is clean and new. Engine turns over fine by hand, and plugs look good.

Brake parts should be here today, but it'll be too late to mess with this weekend, Ill deal with that next week..... I want to hear it bark before I do a whole lot of work on it though.

 

[ScottInAZ]

Looks like a good starting point. As far as steering I would go ahead and do a Saginaw conversion now before investing any money keeping the Ross box working.

ive been thinking about it, especially with the current gearbox being less than smooth....

what parts are needed to do that conversion, and what is the normal source (year/make/model) for the donor parts.... IF this does what I think, it gives me MILES more clearance right where i need it for the exhaust and clutch linkages to then live.

 

[homersdog]

ive been thinking about it, especially with the current gearbox being less than smooth....

what parts are needed to do that conversion, and what is the normal source (year/make/model) for the donor parts.... IF this does what I think, it gives me MILES more clearance right where i need it for the exhaust and clutch linkages to then live.

Saginaw conversions are probably one of the most covered topics on this site.

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?search/153830578/&q=saginaw&o=date&c[title_only]=1

This is a great starting point, but go to the later posts, a lot of the pictures have been lost.
http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/17911/

 

[ScottInAZ]

Saginaw conversions are probably one of the most covered topics on this site.

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?search/153830578/&q=saginaw&o=date&c[title_only]=1

This is a great starting point, but go to the later posts, a lot of the pictures have been lost.
http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/17911/

thats gonna keep me busy for a while....I was just wondering if there was a "best" donor for most of the parts.... mounting the pump for me is the easy part.... Plenty of 70's Ford sedans used Saginaw pumps, so engine mounting is easy..... My biggest concern is getting/making it hook up from the pitman arm to the rest of the steering.....

 

[duffer]

My biggest concern is getting/making it hook up from the pitman arm to the rest of the steering.....

Usually not a very complicated task using the stock 11/16-18 threaded TREs. Pretty easy to shorten stock tie rod pieces. Gets more complex if going for the 7/8-18 TREs. To really address where you want to go with this, you will have to decide what you are actually going to use it for.

 

[ScottInAZ]

Usually not a very complicated task using the stock 11/16-18 threaded TREs. Pretty easy to shorten stock tie rod pieces. Gets more complex if going for the 7/8-18 TREs. To really address where you want to go with this, you will have to decide what you are actually going to use it for.

This Jeep will primarily be street, with some use on Forest Service roads towing my small firewood trailer. No hardcore rock crawling for me…..

 

[53A1]

Hey Scott. Jumping on your build thread from the Early CJ forum. I have the same setup in working order. I bought mine more complete but still have many hours into it. Here's my posting. Should have put in the build forum but I didn't realy build it. More of a refurbishment. Let me know if you need more pictures.

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/161245/

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/161393/#post-1869291

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/161601/#post-1872656

 

[ScottInAZ]

Hey Scott. Jumping on your build thread from the Early CJ forum. I have the same setup in working order. I bought mine more complete but still have many hours into it. Here's my posting. Should have put in the build forum but I didn't realy build it. More of a refurbishment. Let me know if you need more pictures.

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/161245/

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/161393/#post-1869291

http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/161601/#post-1872656

awesome pics and jeep. im sure i'll be picking your brain on this as my build progresses to see how things were done with the swap... Good pics are worth a thousand screwups....

Yours is done fairly similar to mine it seems. I will have to do the clutch linkage differently, as the PO started to set it up for swinging pedals. Im thinking a pull type hydraulic clutch will give me a bit of room in a cramped area. Your exhaust runs about how I would like mine to, I wish I could ID those headers. I have a set of block huggers for a Bronco on the way, we will see if I can make them work, if not, outside the frame rail, as yours are is the next option.

my floorboards are almost completely gone, with a good portion of the firewall as well. I have part of a cover for that, which came with the jeep that fits, just need to go from about the drivers valve cover to the steering column still... the piece over the trans will be a full fabrication of mine... Ill be getting a bending brake soon to at least try and make it clean.

Ill have some more pics of this up this weekend when I can work on it again hopefully. I'd like to have it at least mobile in the next couple of weeks. Im not real happy with where I had to park it, and without brakes, moving it to a more suitable location on my property is sketchy at best.....

 

[53A1]

I couldn't see the last four pics you posted. If you look through my postings, I think Donny recognized my headers. He said they're old school.

As long as you have a welder and some basic fabrication tools you can rework the firewall.

Looks like they may have set the engine pretty far back? On mine the front cross member is notched and the rad fan sits down it the notch just clearing the front cross member. Doing this, my firewall barely needed to be modified which I was happy about. It's an A1 tub and I hate when those hard to find military parts are butchered.

I don't like my linkage and the Hurtz shifter in mine was really hard to make work. As I found mine, the PO had built a fiberglass floorboard to cover the trans. I don't think he quite finished the project because you couldn't get your foot on the pedal. I had to rework it and it's just barely acceptable. They used the original clutch/brake shaft that mounts to frame and trans case and moved it back to accommodate the longer drivetrain. They then extended the linkages. It works.

I'd pull all the wheels and see what the breaks need. Maybe just to get some basic stopping ability. Mine only needed a wheel cylinder hone and a small section of brake line. I'd get some basic steering setup and then see where your at with the engine. I don't have tons of cash so I like to work with what I have.

I have another rock crawler so this is my rip around town jeep. You'll like it when you finish. It's a blast to drive around town. Very fast. I like building ratty stuff like this.

 

[ScottInAZ]

I couldn't see the last four pics you posted. If you look through my postings, I think Donny recognized my headers. He said they're old school.

As long as you have a welder and some basic fabrication tools you can rework the firewall.

Looks like they may have set the engine pretty far back? On mine the front cross member is notched and the rad fan sits down it the notch just clearing the front cross member. Doing this, my firewall barely needed to be modified which I was happy about. It's an A1 tub and I hate then they are butchered.

I don't like my linkage and the Hurtz shifter in mine was really hard to make work. As I found mine, the PO had built a fiberglass floorboard to cover the trans. I don't think he quite finished the project because you couldn't get your foot on the pedal. I had to rework it and it's just barely acceptable.

I'd pull all the wheels and see what the breaks need. Rebuilding the drums for the time being is cheap. Mine only needed a wheel cylinder hone and a small section of brake line. This will give you some basic stopping. I'd get some basic steering setup and then see where your at with the engine. I don't have tons of cash so I like to work with what I have.

I have another rock crawler so this is my rip around town jeep. You'll like it when you finish. It's a blast to drive around town. Very fast.

The last 4 pics were the same as the others…. I was trying and failing at posting them on this board….. brakes need hardline between the master and wheels. I have the line, just need to make them up. Plan is to get it running and drive the hell out of it before anything cosmetic

my crossmember is also notched for the fan, so it can’t be too far off where yours is. I will need to fab up a radiator mount, as I have none currently.
As for now, I’m gonna get the steering I have working, and do a Saginaw swap later when I have all the parts.

I work Monday-Thursday, so I get long weekends to fiddle with it, and I’ll be sure to post progress here for all to see.

 

[53A1]

my crossmember is also notched for the fan, so it can’t be too far off where yours is.

That's good. Given that, the front grill will need to be narrowed (front to back). The PO of my rig sliced off the whole shroud that the radiator mounts to so my grill is only about 5-6 inches thick. The radiator now sits on top of the front cross member so he tuned it into a cross flow (shorter top to bottom) by reworking the radiator. He then built a brace that sits to the front of the radiator that mounts to the frame and the support rods that run from the firewall to shroud. The radiator bolts to the brace. The PO thought it through pretty well. Not a perfect implementation in fabrication but pretty well thought out.

 

[ScottInAZ]

That's good. Given that, the front grill will need to be narrowed (front to back). The PO of my rig sliced off the whole shroud that the radiator mounts to so my grill is only about 5-6 inches thick. The radiator now sits on top of the front cross member so he tuned it into a cross flow (shorter top to bottom) by reworking the radiator. He then built a brace that sits to the front of the radiator that mounts to the frame and the support rods that run from the firewall to shroud. The radiator bolts to the brace. The PO thought it through pretty well. Not a perfect implementation in fabrication but pretty well thought out.

the PO of mine did the same. Cut the whole “core support” clean off. My radiator is wider than the frame rails, but otherwise will work good. I’ll just have to lay it back a bit to clear the hood, but with mounts like yours should be very doable. Short flexi-hoses will hook it up good, as my hose nipples are already in the right spots. I’ll take a few pics this weekend for mockup.

 

[53A1]

I’ll just have to lay it back a bit to clear the hood

My hood does not clear in two spots where the support rods bolt onto the radiator support so he notched the hood in the cross channel where it was interfering. Not too bad. I'll get a picture for you. If it's just hitting in that spot this might work for you.