1963 Us Navy Dj-3a
- Thread starter Fireball
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
Bringing this conversation back to the DJ-3, I had a fail last night.
I decided I would swap out the pitman arm. I pulled the new arm off the extra steering box, then pulled the current one off the Jeep. It took a lot of tension and heat to get it to pop off:
Here's where it was rubbing the drag link:
The trashed boot:
New ptman arm and boot installed:
The difference in arm length:
All was going great until I tried to bolt the tie-rod to the new arm. It goes way too deep into the hole.
The hole isn't big enough for a 1-ton tie rod, so I'm guessing it's just wallowed out. Bummer. New pitman arm for a 72 Chevelle ordered and I'll need to wait until next week to get this back together. I could also swap arms with the '71, but I don't really want to take that one apart.
I decided I would swap out the pitman arm. I pulled the new arm off the extra steering box, then pulled the current one off the Jeep. It took a lot of tension and heat to get it to pop off:
Here's where it was rubbing the drag link:
The trashed boot:
New ptman arm and boot installed:
The difference in arm length:
All was going great until I tried to bolt the tie-rod to the new arm. It goes way too deep into the hole.
The hole isn't big enough for a 1-ton tie rod, so I'm guessing it's just wallowed out. Bummer. New pitman arm for a 72 Chevelle ordered and I'll need to wait until next week to get this back together. I could also swap arms with the '71, but I don't really want to take that one apart.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
I had changed my pitman arm on the JEEP right before the trip and it looked like it was gonna clear with no issues but I did see indications of it and the tire rod coming into contact..
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2005
I'd love to see this too. Seems like even the 4.3 is getting a bit long in the tooth - time for a new "common" swap. I remember when I was a teenager wanting to put a 2.3 Lima engine in my Jeep. You never see those anymore!
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
Still failing on this because of my own ignorance.
The new arm showed up and it has the same issue. This raised my suspicions so I did some research. It turns out GM switched from the common 7 degree taper that Jeeps and Fords also use to a 10 degree taper in the early '70s. So my new 72+ Chevelle Pitman arm doesn't work either.
The pretty new arm:
How it should be:
How it is:
New arms ordered and should be here tomorrow. One is Jeep, one is older Chevy. It's all a bit of a shot in the dark because most listings don't note length or taper.
Finding an arm with the right taper is my easiest route for the following reasons:
For reference, here are the various rod ends:
The new arm showed up and it has the same issue. This raised my suspicions so I did some research. It turns out GM switched from the common 7 degree taper that Jeeps and Fords also use to a 10 degree taper in the early '70s. So my new 72+ Chevelle Pitman arm doesn't work either.
The pretty new arm:
How it should be:
How it is:
New arms ordered and should be here tomorrow. One is Jeep, one is older Chevy. It's all a bit of a shot in the dark because most listings don't note length or taper.
Finding an arm with the right taper is my easiest route for the following reasons:
- My heavy duty Rugged Ridge tie rod/drag link kit uses the standard Jeep taper, but has larger metric treads like those on WJ Jeeps.
- The thread diameter of the Rugged Ridge rod end is about the same size as 7/8-18 1-ton rod ends, but the threads are not compatible.
- The chance of finding a 10 degree tie rod end that screws into my existing metric drag link seems slim.
- There are a million things I could do like upgrade to 1-ton rod ends by reaming out the holes and replacing links, or doing a flip kit which would put 7 degree Jeep-sized inserts everywhere, but I just wanted this to be a quick Job.
For reference, here are the various rod ends:
- Rugged Ridge rod end with 7 degree Jeep taper and large metric threads on top
- 1-ton rod end with MUCH larger 7 degree taper and 7/8-18 threads
- Standard CJ rod end with 7 degree Jeep taper and small threads. (Boy does it look small compared to the other two)
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
Last night was more failing, but finally winning.
The new Chevrolet arm showed up and the taper is actually too small on that one:
That's not really a problem because I have a reamer to make it larger. The bigger problem with that arm is that it's too short and doesn't have enough travel to turn the tires full lock:
Luckily, I had also ordered some flip inserts, so I decided to put an insert in my original extra steering arm to bring the taper down to the right size. I could have done a flip, but then the steering linkage would hit the shocks and possibly the frame at full bump, and I'm not ready to tackle the suspension project yet, so I just installed the taper insert in the same direction. I may do a flip later when I redo the suspension.
Drilling out the old taper with a 3/4" bridge reamer. Boy am I glad this new DeWalt drill has an automatic anti-torque shut-off so it doesn't break your wrist when the reamer catches:
The reamer leaves a nice hole:
The insert fits nicely:
Welded. I slipped and got too close to the taper in one spot, but the taper is clean and it will be fine:
Extra protruding material ground off the back side of the taper insert:
Paint is drying overnight. Hopefully I get it all back together tonight and the Jeep is running again. This "quick one-night project" has had the Jeep down for a week and a half now.
The new Chevrolet arm showed up and the taper is actually too small on that one:
That's not really a problem because I have a reamer to make it larger. The bigger problem with that arm is that it's too short and doesn't have enough travel to turn the tires full lock:
Luckily, I had also ordered some flip inserts, so I decided to put an insert in my original extra steering arm to bring the taper down to the right size. I could have done a flip, but then the steering linkage would hit the shocks and possibly the frame at full bump, and I'm not ready to tackle the suspension project yet, so I just installed the taper insert in the same direction. I may do a flip later when I redo the suspension.
Drilling out the old taper with a 3/4" bridge reamer. Boy am I glad this new DeWalt drill has an automatic anti-torque shut-off so it doesn't break your wrist when the reamer catches:
The reamer leaves a nice hole:
The insert fits nicely:
Welded. I slipped and got too close to the taper in one spot, but the taper is clean and it will be fine:
Extra protruding material ground off the back side of the taper insert:
Paint is drying overnight. Hopefully I get it all back together tonight and the Jeep is running again. This "quick one-night project" has had the Jeep down for a week and a half now.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
Finally back together:
Plenty of clearance between the drag link rod and and the tie rod now:
Interestingly, the old arm was clocked a little different and I assumed the box was centered when it was pointed straight back. It was not, but the old longer arm had enough travel to hit both locks anyway. The new shorter arm needs to be perfectly centered so it can just reach both locks. This meant pulling the steering wheel and re-aligning it for center.
Took it up and down the driveway. Seems good. Boy is the steering slow with the 4.25 turn box, a shorter Pitman arm and the long D30 steering arm on the knuckle. Not something you want to autocross with, but fine for offroad use. It's sort of like driving a 50's truck, but with power steering.
I did a couple other things while I was under the front of the Jeep.
1). The ARB air line had just kissed the front pulley somewhere on the Rubicon, you could feel some roughness on the surface, but it was still intact. It's a tight fit:
I added another zip-tie on the frame side to pull it further from the pulley, and added a piece of rubber hose to protect the line in case it ever hits the pulley again. The pictures don't really show it, but there is at least 3/8" more clearance now:
2). I also noticed that the fuel line feeding the fuel pump was rubbing the radiator post Rubicon pump swap:
Fixed, and yes, it does just clear the steering shaft without rubbing:
Plenty of clearance between the drag link rod and and the tie rod now:
Interestingly, the old arm was clocked a little different and I assumed the box was centered when it was pointed straight back. It was not, but the old longer arm had enough travel to hit both locks anyway. The new shorter arm needs to be perfectly centered so it can just reach both locks. This meant pulling the steering wheel and re-aligning it for center.
Took it up and down the driveway. Seems good. Boy is the steering slow with the 4.25 turn box, a shorter Pitman arm and the long D30 steering arm on the knuckle. Not something you want to autocross with, but fine for offroad use. It's sort of like driving a 50's truck, but with power steering.
I did a couple other things while I was under the front of the Jeep.
1). The ARB air line had just kissed the front pulley somewhere on the Rubicon, you could feel some roughness on the surface, but it was still intact. It's a tight fit:
I added another zip-tie on the frame side to pull it further from the pulley, and added a piece of rubber hose to protect the line in case it ever hits the pulley again. The pictures don't really show it, but there is at least 3/8" more clearance now:
2). I also noticed that the fuel line feeding the fuel pump was rubbing the radiator post Rubicon pump swap:
Fixed, and yes, it does just clear the steering shaft without rubbing:
Renegade ll
Julius Vatalaro
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
Roy on the pitman arm that you reamed how long is it? I have the same problem of mine is too short. I don't hit the stops on the dana 30.Last night was more failing, but finally winning.
The new Chevrolet arm showed up and the taper is actually too small on that one:
That's not really a problem because I have a reamer to make it larger. The bigger problem with that arm is that it's too short and doesn't have enough travel to turn the tires full lock:
Luckily, I had also ordered some flip inserts, so I decided to put an insert in my original extra steering arm to bring the taper down to the right size. I could have done a flip, but then the steering linkage would hit the shocks and possibly the frame at full bump, and I'm not ready to tackle the suspension project yet, so I just installed the taper insert in the same direction. I may do a flip later when I redo the suspension.
Drilling out the old taper with a 3/4" bridge reamer. Boy am I glad this new DeWalt drill has an automatic anti-torque shut-off so it doesn't break your wrist when the reamer catches:
The reamer leaves a nice hole:
The insert fits nicely:
Welded. I slipped and got too close to the taper in one spot, but the taper is clean and it will be fine:
Extra protruding material ground off the back side of the taper insert:
Paint is drying overnight. Hopefully I get it all back together tonight and the Jeep is running again. This "quick one-night project" has had the Jeep down for a week and a half now.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
The one that's on the Jeep now is from a 1972-1976 or so Chevelle and is 5.5" long. It just barely gets to the stops. As noted, the taper was incorrect and fixed with the taper insert.
The too-long one that was on the Jeep is 6.5" and seems to be the same arm that intermediate/late CJs had. If you have room, that might be a good option. It was barely interfering on mine, so if your steering box is mounted a little further forward, it might work just fine on your Jeep. It looks like one of these two, but I'm not sure which one it is:
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
It's been too hot in the shop and I've been too busy with other things to do much work on the Dj, but I did cut down the old doors with shredded windows to make a fee set of half doors last night:
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
That is looking Cool!
Had to look back at what you started with!
Very Cool Jeep!
Dave
Had to look back at what you started with!
Very Cool Jeep!
Dave
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
It’s even cooler in person, very capable.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
There's been a million other things going on in life, so I've just been using the Jeep and not working on it. It's been working good.
Once things settle down a bit in a month or so, I'll start working on my winter punch list.
...but I just added another item to the list. I bought this off timsresort and it showed up this morning. Real Warn overdrive with bronze shift fork and Tera-lo bowl gear:
This will make the Jeep much nicer to drive. The huge gear splits on the SM-420 aren't great on the highway. Even though I'm not changing the axle gears in the near term and won't really be able to use the overdrive in top gear, it will be really nice to split all the lower gears.
With the 3.54 axle gears, this will give me:
Low range:
It's really adding several items to the list though. When I shoved the drivetrain up into the bottom of the Jeep, I didn't cut the hole out enough to fit an overdrive. That will need to be extended:
Which means I will need to extend the back of my boxy tunnel cover and find a place to mount the shifter where it clears the rest of the shifters:
Then underneath, the muffler is too close to the back of the transfercase, so it will need to be moved rearward:
Moving the muffler back means I'll need to modify the skid plate since it wraps around the back of the muffler:
Whatever. I'll work through it.
Ideally, I would switch the axles to 4.88s, but I'm on the wrong side of the carrier splits so it means new lockers in addition to new gears. That's at least $3000 and I don't want to blow that kind of money on this Jeep right now since the current 79:1 crawl gears work pretty well on the Rubicon.
If I did go to 4.88s some day, the gearing would look like this and be really nice:
Low range:
Once things settle down a bit in a month or so, I'll start working on my winter punch list.
...but I just added another item to the list. I bought this off timsresort and it showed up this morning. Real Warn overdrive with bronze shift fork and Tera-lo bowl gear:
This will make the Jeep much nicer to drive. The huge gear splits on the SM-420 aren't great on the highway. Even though I'm not changing the axle gears in the near term and won't really be able to use the overdrive in top gear, it will be really nice to split all the lower gears.
With the 3.54 axle gears, this will give me:
Low range:
- 1st, OD off: 79:1
- 1st, OD on: 59:1
- 2nd, OD off: 40:1
- 2nd, OD on: 30:1
- 3rd, OD off: 19:1
- 3rd, OD on: 14:1
- 4th, OD off: 11:1
- 4th, OD on: 8.4:1
- 1st, OD off: 25:1
- 1st, OD on: 19:1
- 2nd, OD off: 13:1
- 2nd, OD on: 9.5:1
- 3rd, OD off: 6.1:1
- 3rd, OD on: 4.5:1
- 4th, OD off: 3.54:1
- 4th, OD on: 2.66:1 <- not super useful but I like being able to split the rest of the gears.
It's really adding several items to the list though. When I shoved the drivetrain up into the bottom of the Jeep, I didn't cut the hole out enough to fit an overdrive. That will need to be extended:
Which means I will need to extend the back of my boxy tunnel cover and find a place to mount the shifter where it clears the rest of the shifters:
Then underneath, the muffler is too close to the back of the transfercase, so it will need to be moved rearward:
Moving the muffler back means I'll need to modify the skid plate since it wraps around the back of the muffler:
Whatever. I'll work through it.
Ideally, I would switch the axles to 4.88s, but I'm on the wrong side of the carrier splits so it means new lockers in addition to new gears. That's at least $3000 and I don't want to blow that kind of money on this Jeep right now since the current 79:1 crawl gears work pretty well on the Rubicon.
If I did go to 4.88s some day, the gearing would look like this and be really nice:
Low range:
- 1st, OD off: 109:1
- 1st, OD on: 81:1
- 2nd, OD off: 55:1
- 2nd, OD on: 41:1
- 3rd, OD off: 26:1
- 3rd, OD on: 20:1
- 4th, OD off: 15:1
- 4th, OD on: 11.5:1
- 1st, OD off: 34:1
- 1st, OD on: 26:1
- 2nd, OD off: 17:1
- 2nd, OD on: 13:1
- 3rd, OD off: 8.3:1
- 3rd, OD on: 6.66:1
- 4th, OD off: 4.88:1
- 4th, OD on: 3.66:1
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2018
Just notch the muffler
You know, I might actually try that. It would save so much time.