Clutch Cable Replacement/hydro Conversion
- Thread starter Fresbone
- Start date
The clutch fork springs were crooked, correct? Not the pivot balls?
As far as I can tell, the clutch forks and springs are still not available. I’m going to try to weld up the defects and bend the tines of the spring to get better fit. We’ll see how that works. I also bought a taller pivot ball at Sam’s (Partsdude) recommendation.
sorry i should have elaborated more.
the U shaped spring that slides under the pivot stud mushroom head where its welded to the fork was welded to the fork crooked, so much that one side fell off and i had to remove and reinstall my transmission to fix this 6 or 7 times before i got a borescope to see in there enough to figure it out. I'm new to the dauntless and the issues that come with buying new parts for a 60 year old obscure engine. apparently this is/was a well known issue. i bought a used fork from a member here. sam wasnt selling the forks at the time due to known quality issues from the supplier.
jpflat2a
what's that noise?
Food for thought.
When I installed my SM420, the shop used an early Chevy truck t/o fork.
If I recall the fork was cast iron, and it had fixed nubs or pivot points that the t/o bearing slid into.
The pivot ball was different, but I recall the fork had to pop over and onto that ball
and was fork was held onto the ball by a retainer clip.
Seems to me it would never come off.
The only downside was the overall length of the fork was too long and had to be cut
and re-welded for proper length.
This old school shop had many, many customers and even their own Jeeps using these custom forks.
Maybe this might work for you?
Either way, manual or hydraulic won't work correctly until fork issue is resolved.
When I installed my SM420, the shop used an early Chevy truck t/o fork.
If I recall the fork was cast iron, and it had fixed nubs or pivot points that the t/o bearing slid into.
The pivot ball was different, but I recall the fork had to pop over and onto that ball
and was fork was held onto the ball by a retainer clip.
Seems to me it would never come off.
The only downside was the overall length of the fork was too long and had to be cut
and re-welded for proper length.
This old school shop had many, many customers and even their own Jeeps using these custom forks.
Maybe this might work for you?
Either way, manual or hydraulic won't work correctly until fork issue is resolved.
I saw this one last night. Only problem I see with that is that if the pivot point is artificially constrained (as opposed to being properly balanced), it is going to cause wear problems somewhere else, like maybe between the throw out bearing and the transmission shaft. This is a problem with overly constrained knee replacements - no idea if that would apply to JEEPs!
jpflat2a
what's that noise?
Maybe in 50 years of continual everyday use....
I only have about 25 left!
I’m in the process of reinstalling the TC/tranny and bellhousing in the process of a hydraulic conversion. The fuel lines (top) and exhaust pipes (below) keep me from being able to install the bellhousing with the gear box, which is the way I did it on my CJ5.
I screwed in the pivot ball (0.30” longer) and put in the fork and throw out bearing, put on the dust boot, lined up the posts on the engine with the holes on the bellhousing, and it’s not going on very easily. First, the throw out bearing doesn’t line up with the hole in the clutch. It looks like it is properly seated in the pivot ball.
Second, there is a decent amount of pressure between the throwout bearing and the clutch while installing it. Is it normal for the throwout bearing to contact the clutch when there is no pull on it?
I screwed in the pivot ball (0.30” longer) and put in the fork and throw out bearing, put on the dust boot, lined up the posts on the engine with the holes on the bellhousing, and it’s not going on very easily. First, the throw out bearing doesn’t line up with the hole in the clutch. It looks like it is properly seated in the pivot ball.
Second, there is a decent amount of pressure between the throwout bearing and the clutch while installing it. Is it normal for the throwout bearing to contact the clutch when there is no pull on it?
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I removed the clutch fork dust boot and that wasn’t the problem although it is too big and needs to be modified or tossed. The new pivot ball is too thick for my clutch. When I backed it out, I was able to line things up. I’m going to search for an adjustable pivot ball (which I don’t think is made for this bellhousing) or get a new version of the original. If that doesn’t work, it’s Novak time.
I’m getting quite the selection of pivot balls. Too to bottom:
Old one showing wear. Much too sloppy.
New regular length from Partsdude. Too squared off at top. Doesn’t fit well.
New extended length from Partsdude. Too long. Overstuffs the mechanism.
Current throwout bearing. 1.569” thick.
Im going to sit down with the Novak clutch guide and try to figure out if I have the correct throwout bearing. If this is the correct throwout bearing, the. Adjustable pivot ball or Novak release arm time.
Old one showing wear. Much too sloppy.
New regular length from Partsdude. Too squared off at top. Doesn’t fit well.
New extended length from Partsdude. Too long. Overstuffs the mechanism.
Current throwout bearing. 1.569” thick.
Im going to sit down with the Novak clutch guide and try to figure out if I have the correct throwout bearing. If this is the correct throwout bearing, the. Adjustable pivot ball or Novak release arm time.
After going through the Novak guide and taking measurements, it looks like the ideal length throwout bearing would be 1 13/16”. My existing throwout bearing is 1 9/16”. Is that enough of a difference to change the throwout bearing?
Here is the math:
Bellhousing surface to “land” 5 5/8
- Back of block to fingers of clutch 3 9/16
- Air gap 1/8
- Allowance for clutch wear 1/8
I am going to get the Novak arm shown above. I could add the adjustable bearing, get a new bearing, or keep the current bearing.
Here is the math:
Bellhousing surface to “land” 5 5/8
- Back of block to fingers of clutch 3 9/16
- Air gap 1/8
- Allowance for clutch wear 1/8
I am going to get the Novak arm shown above. I could add the adjustable bearing, get a new bearing, or keep the current bearing.
Partsdude kit came with a nice template.
Master cylinder installed. I routed the line along with the brake lines.
Heim joint. The pedal already had the 5/16 hole drilled in the fright place but it was used for the return spring.
Probably going to zip tie the line to the Speedo cable to keep it from rubbing on the clutch fork.
Master cylinder installed. I routed the line along with the brake lines.
Heim joint. The pedal already had the 5/16 hole drilled in the fright place but it was used for the return spring.
Probably going to zip tie the line to the Speedo cable to keep it from rubbing on the clutch fork.
So the remaining questions are:
1. The Heim joint naturally sits about 3/8” away from the pedal. There is some play in the the plunger rod, so do I bolt the Heim joint up against the pedal or put in a small spacer to keep the plunger rod in line?
2. Do I still need a return spring for the pedal, or is the back pressure in the line good enough? The hole for the return spring is where the Heim joint bolt goes.
3. Is this the best location (following the brake lines) for the line to run?
1. The Heim joint naturally sits about 3/8” away from the pedal. There is some play in the the plunger rod, so do I bolt the Heim joint up against the pedal or put in a small spacer to keep the plunger rod in line?
2. Do I still need a return spring for the pedal, or is the back pressure in the line good enough? The hole for the return spring is where the Heim joint bolt goes.
3. Is this the best location (following the brake lines) for the line to run?
I really like the look of that kit.
1) If it were me, I'd use a spacer so the rod has a straight shot to the master cylinder.
2) Yes, you should have a return spring so the wieght of the pedal isn't being held up by the seal in the master cylinder.
3) As long as the line isn't too close to the exhaust or anything that moves (like the clutch arm you noted), the sky is the limit. Make sure it has enough flex so it doesn't tighten up as the slave cylinder pivots when the clutch is actuated.
OzFin
Vintage Jeep Guy
1.I used a couple of flat washers and spaced the heim joint slightly away from the pedal.
2. I have not used a return spring and it has not been an issue.
3. I ran my hydraulic line towards the fender side. It shouldn't matter which side as long as it doesn't rub or get snagged on something.
Enjoy the new set up, it is a huge difference in pedal effort!