Fino's 1970 Cj5 Build Thread

[cj2atruck]

Exhaust always seems to be a pain. I generally buy a box of pipe and various bends from Summit Racing and piece together my own exhaust, as I care more about the end result than a guy in a shop. A couple of folks here have built works of art. My goal is to get it to the back of the rig without leaks or rattles and it doesn’t look like a toddler built it. I generally paint it black, and once it has been on a few trips, no one ever looks at it again.

Your final product looks just fine and will meet the objectives. Paint it black before final install and it will be in the background.

 

[givemethewillys]

A couple measurements.....the final length of the outer column housing is 31-1/8"....final OAL of the column shaft is 35-3/4". That 4-5/8 difference accounts for the 3" that the shaft extends above the column at the steering wheel end and the 1-5/8 that the shaft extends beyond the bottom of the column housing. My set up has more 'stick-out' at the bottom than others as I both wanted to use a shaft collar and needed some extra room between collar and the top of the joint for the weld bead (I welded the joint to the column as it's a round shaft).

Fino, I was thinking through what you mentioned about the column bushing, and how you'd do it differently next time. From my limited Google-fu, it sounds like milling out an oilite bushing is difficult to get right. How do you feel about milling the column down to the diameter for AA's bushing, and then creating a 3/4" double D end on the bottom of the column? Does anyone see any strength concerns there?

 

[FinoCJ]

and then creating a 3/4" double D end on the bottom of the column? Does anyone see any strength concerns there?

That steering shaft is hollow, and I think it would get too thin for my comfort to turn it down to 3/4 and then mill flats in the sides as well. Honestly, after working with it a bit, I am pretty happy with welding the 7/8 round joint on the shaft. It still fits through the floor hole without issue so easy to remove as a unit with the column, and as the shaft slides into the column from the bottom, it doesn't affect how the shaft and column go together. Time will tell if I welded it well ...a cross pin drilled through will add a bit of secondary safety, but I didn't want to rely only on that. The idea is the weld is primary, but if it fails, the pin will keep it safely functional and get it home.

 

[givemethewillys]

That steering shaft is hollow, and I think it would get too thin for my comfort to turn it down to 3/4 and then mill flats in the sides as well. Honestly, after working with it a bit, I am pretty happy with welding the 7/8 round joint on the shaft. It still fits through the floor hole without issue so easy to remove as a unit with the column, and as the shaft slides into the column from the bottom, it doesn't affect how the shaft and column go together. Time will tell if I welded it well ...a cross pin drilled through will add a bit of secondary safety, but I didn't want to rely only on that. The idea is the weld is primary, but if it fails, the pin will keep it safely functional and get it home.

Ah, I didn't realize it was hollow! Thanks for the additional insight.

 

[Fireball]

Ah, I didn't realize it was hollow! Thanks for the additional insight.

It has to be hollow for the horn wire to pass all the way down the steering shaft and out the bottom of the Ross box.

 

[FinoCJ]

Working on all the tedious small stuff getting things back together....redoing portions of the front brake lines to clear the new stuff, cleaning up wiring that needed addressed - some of that was part of the front end work I did last fall etc..... I installed new tie rod and drag link, and pitman arm (thanks Doug). Overall, geometry looks good, but I think they came a bit longer than I was expecting, so may need to trim those down to get the toe-in. Will set-up the string around the rear wheels alignment method.

I loved the professional ceramic coating I had a shop do for the sbc ramshorn manifolds in the 58 - I'd love to do that for the CJ one day, but I originally did the manifolds with VHT manifold paint and its held up reasonably well. I probably should have re-done the passenger side one, but time is short and I am pressing to get stuff done before leaving for Utah in a couple weeks. The VHT paint works much better if you can cure it in an oven before installing.....I don't have an oven, but the BBQ works well. It needed its yearly cleaning anyway, so it got cleaned up and then burned hot for while.

Next up is to check the winch plate clearance above the steering gear. With the gear mounted high, I may either need to open up a bit of clearance through the plate (precisely drilled hole), or remake the side brackets to raise the whole thing up a bit. Eventually, the plan might be to build a sunk 8274 mount. I actually have a mount for it that would mount it above the frame rails, but I don't love how much airflow it blocks......I'd like to move the Ramsey winch over to the 58....

Off to White Sulphur Springs and a couple days of PSIA work at Showdown....waiting on a couple parts anyway....Back at it next week

 

[FinoCJ]

Due to mounting the steering gear so high - the top of the gear and mount plate extend above the frame rails enough I needed to rework and raise the winch mount - and of course, some of the previous bolt heads that held the plate to the side brackets and the tow hooks were right in spots that could not be clearanced - so lots of new mount holes were drilled. I got this plate years ago and was already quite used with some existing holes in it, so now there are even more....The new set-up is not as clean as previously, and the tow hooks are slightly off parallel with the frame rails, but I did move the tow hooks further out to the sides which gives a bit more room (makes it easier) to get a strap on the hook without things getting caught on the winch (especially the passenger side)....the tedious time consuming stuff that is hindering getting it back on the road.

 

[FinoCJ]

Squeezed one last thing today before I am out of the shop for a few more days....got the exhaust finalized.

Roy was super helpful as I used a rear dump manifold very similar what he used. First, when buying it, he explained one needs both the manifold and the lower housing for the flapper valve. The flapper valve is not needed, but without the housing there is no way to connect the manifold to the exhaust pipe - there is no place to make the flange connection. Roy wired his valve open....my valve was pretty deteriorated and falling apart, so I removed it entirely. But that left a hole in the housing....had to tap NPT and install a pipe plug:

Next, Roy pointed me towards an appropriate gasket to go between the manifold and valve housing.....that really helped speed up the process. Here's the gasket along with standard felpro manifold gaskets:

With the manifold and exhaust in place, the steering could be bolted down.

Now with the steering finalized, on to the Tie rod pieces and alignment.

 

[colojeepguy]

Looking good!!

 

[Fireball]

Looking good!!

X2. Looking good!

 

[Militarymetal]

Squeezed one last thing today before I am out of the shop for a few more days....got the exhaust finalized.

Roy was super helpful as I used a rear dump manifold very similar what he used. First, when buying it, he explained one needs both the manifold and the lower housing for the flapper valve. The flapper valve is not needed, but without the housing there is no way to connect the manifold to the exhaust pipe - there is no place to make the flange connection. Roy wired his valve open....my valve was pretty deteriorated and falling apart, so I removed it entirely. But that left a hole in the housing....had to tap NPT and install a pipe plug:

Next, Roy pointed me towards an appropriate gasket to go between the manifold and valve housing.....that really helped speed up the process. Here's the gasket along with standard felpro manifold gaskets:

With the manifold and exhaust in place, the steering could be bolted down.

Now with the steering finalized, on to the Tie rod pieces and alignment.

Looking really good!

 

[FinoCJ]

Leave for Utah on Easter Sunday....only have maybe 3 shop days left to have it ready. Hope this coming Fri-sun will be enough to wrap things up, but could probably squeeze another day or two the following week if absolutely needed. Ideally, need to prep the trailer after winter storage as well....arghhh....don't like running this tight a schedule.

 

[FinoCJ]

Getting things back together....

Cleaned up some wiring while I was in there, although there is still more to do one day. I spent a lot of time on the 58 wiring and think its done well, but sometimes I forget I never really did much with the 70 - maybe one day. Anyway, replaced the last of the rubber hoses that didn't get replaced last fall - so all coolant, radiator, heater and short sections of rubber fuel line have been replaced. Put the OEM radiator back in that was rodded and repaired last year - the aluminum rad will be kept around just in case. I actually appreciate the aluminum radiator lower passenger output seems to clear the oil filter better than the OEM anyway (the timing cover is not OEM - replaced years ago with engine rebuilt - and I think it puts the filter in a less desirable spot than OEM.

New tie rod and drag link, along with 4 new TRE's....

I like the final geometry. The knuckle TRE's are flipped to the top, but the pitman TRE is still under. The drag link has minimal bump steer angle and is nicely aligned and parallel to the tie-rod (the pitman arm from Doug's c101 was perfect). The pics are a bit optically misleading in terms of the apparent alignment:

Got the home shop alignment done with string around the rear tires - had to push it back and forth in the garage to roll the tires a bit. Its probably not perfect, but will check it after I can drive it around the block - at this point its pretty easy to make minor adjustment turning the tie-rod in place. I don't recall exactly what I measured the previous tie rod length to be hole-to-hole (with the previous single hole knuckle) - but I ordered the 42.5" TR from Speedway. Their instructions say to order based on total length hole to hole (so including the TREs), and they send you a TR that is 3" shorter to account for the TREs. And that is exactly what I got - a TR that was 39.5". Unfortunately, I must have measured wrong or something (maybe the Moog TREs are a bit longer than accounted for, or the two hole knuckle steering arm makes things different), but that turned out to be a bit too long. At the shortest possible length, it was still toe-out. I had to trim about 1/2" off each end (probably only needed to take a 1/4" off), but there is lots of thread on the inside and final result is all good. The drag link, also ordered from speedway, seems ok so far, but its essentially as short as it can go. Guess I rounded up all my measurements - maybe should have rounded down when ordering - although too short can't be saved as easily, whereas a smidge too long can be trimmed (and even tapped deeper if needed).

Spent too long trying to get the brakes bled....think my MC may be struggling a bit (piston may be loosing seal along the cylinder?). Not looking forward to replacing that - its a tight space to work. Good enough for now. Afternoon plan is to wrap up the brakes, double check wiring, prime the oil pump and see if it'll start.

 

[Militarymetal]

Getting things back together....

Cleaned up some wiring while I was in there, although there is still more to do one day. I spent a lot of time on the 58 wiring and think its done well, but sometimes I forget I never really did much with the 70 - maybe one day. Anyway, replaced the last of the rubber hoses that didn't get replaced last fall - so all coolant, radiator, heater and short sections of rubber fuel line have been replaced. Put the OEM radiator back in that was rodded and repaired last year - the aluminum rad will be kept around just in case. I actually appreciate the aluminum radiator lower passenger output seems to clear the oil filter better than the OEM anyway (the timing cover is not OEM - replaced years ago with engine rebuilt - and I think it puts the filter in a less desirable spot than OEM.

New tie rod and drag link, along with 4 new TRE's....

I like the final geometry. The knuckle TRE's are flipped to the top, but the pitman TRE is still under. The drag link has minimal bump steer angle and is nicely aligned and parallel to the tie-rod (the pitman arm from Doug's c101 was perfect). The pics are a bit optically misleading in terms of the apparent alignment:

Got the home shop alignment done with string around the rear tires - had to push it back and forth in the garage to roll the tires a bit. Its probably not perfect, but will check it after I can drive it around the block - at this point its pretty easy to make minor adjustment turning the tie-rod in place. I don't recall exactly what I measured the previous tie rod length to be hole-to-hole (with the previous single hole knuckle) - but I ordered the 42.5" TR from Speedway. Their instructions say to order based on total length hole to hole (so including the TREs), and they send you a TR that is 3" shorter to account for the TREs. And that is exactly what I got - a TR that was 39.5". Unfortunately, I must have measured wrong or something (maybe the Moog TREs are a bit longer than accounted for, or the two hole knuckle steering arm makes things different), but that turned out to be a bit too long. At the shortest possible length, it was still toe-out. I had to trim about 1/2" off each end (probably only needed to take a 1/4" off), but there is lots of thread on the inside and final result is all good. The drag link, also ordered from speedway, seems ok so far, but its essentially as short as it can go. Guess I rounded up all my measurements - maybe should have rounded down when ordering - although too short can't be saved as easily, whereas a smidge too long can be trimmed (and even tapped deeper if needed).

Spent too long trying to get the brakes bled....think my MC may be struggling a bit (piston may be loosing seal along the cylinder?). Not looking forward to replacing that - its a tight space to work. Good enough for now. Afternoon plan is to wrap up the brakes, double check wiring, prime the oil pump and see if it'll start.

I sure hope to see a bunch of pictures and hear stories of the EJS adventures from all you guys going. I wish I was!

 

[FinoCJ]

I sure hope to see a bunch of pictures and hear stories of the EJS adventures from all you guys going. I wish I was!

Not going to EJS - that's too big and crowded for me. But the week after EJS is often quiet....meeting up up with a few of the ecj5 gang for white rim trip. Of course, that is all assuming I get this thing back on the road before then. Didn't get as far along as I hoped yesterday - hoping it gets a test drive today, before I am out of the shop for a few days. We'll post up on the trip report.

 

[cj2atruck]

Not going to EJS - that's too big and crowded for me. But the week after EJS is often quiet....meeting up up with a few of the ecj5 gang for white rim trip. Of course, that is all assuming I get this thing back on the road before then. Didn't get as far along as I hoped yesterday - hoping it gets a test drive today, before I am out of the shop for a few days. We'll post up on the trip report.

Agree, EJS has long lines on the trails, so we are usually gone from Moab about 2 weeks prior to avoid the crowed trails…

 

[FinoCJ]

Jeep made it out of the garage today - first time since Nov I believe:

Of course winter returned last night so it's not the most pleasant cruising around with no top. It's actually a bit different driving due to the quick reaction of the steering. It's not so much the box ratio - it's the 24:1 (6 turns L2L) so can't get much slower ratio - but rather the lack of slop or play. I am so many years used to having over 1/2 a steering wheel turn of play/slop, that driving it on the road and highway was less about actively steering it where you wanted to go, and more like guiding it and making gentle suggestions hoping to convince it to go where you wanted, yet accepting it would have some of its own mind. It's going to take a bit to get used to the reaction of the steering wheel - need to recheck alignment, but it doesn't seem darting or unstable in a way that suggests alignment issue, rather just a driver adjustment to reduce steering input.

The steering effort seems about the same when driving down the road, a bit easier at slower speeds, and most notably when barely moving getting in and out of the tight turn for my shop garage door. All this is with 2wd and freewheeling hub....the real test will be with hubs locked and locker engaged. Of course, my goal with this swap was never to significantly ease the steering effort - thus no power - but basically to get rid of the dying ross box and all its slop that was getting sketchy at highway speeds, and some reduction of steering effort through the even slower ratio manual saggy box, two hole knuckle with longer steering arm, and a bit better drag link angle (more parallel) to the knuckle. From a 5 minute drive, feeling optimistic that it is right where I want it to be.

I am not going to have much chance to drive it (on or off road) before heading to Utah - especially with winter's return and heavy mountain snow in the forecast - so kind of jumped to the conclusion that a steering dampener might be helpful. The jeep came to me with one on the ross system, and I never loved how low it seemed to hang, especially with TRE under knuckle. I tried moving it more up and out of the way, but it broke on a rubicon trip and it ran for years without one - wasn't a big deal one way or the other to me. But I've heard unending comment that the manual saggy box has a lot of kickback to the steering wheel. I had a manual box on my CJ7, and do not remember it being an issue - or let's say not significantly different than the ross system. Of course I did have a dampener on the CJ7, and never drove the 7 without one, so maybe I would have noticed it a bit more. Anyway, I put one on - its not an attempt to cure death wobble or worn steering parts or whatever - just an attempt to help minimize potential steering wheel kickback. If nothing else, its at least tucked up higher with the TRE flip - above the bottom of the axle seemed like the minimum. Pic is testing with wheels to driver side knuckle stop and determining the short end of the length range. Going long to the passenger side, it stops just short of the diff cover ring gear protrusion where clearance can be an issue.

Maybe one day I'll actually build a hard core trail rig with all sorts of fancy stuff like PS, PB, flexy suspension etc.....but this jeep is what it is, and it's not that. Besides, it's usually the driver (and the mechanic) that limits this jeep's capability....