yup....I am still figuring out the details of this, but I do want to add some strength connecting across under the bottom of the tubing
Fino's 1970 Cj5 Build Thread
- Thread starter FinoCJ
- Start date
Weld it. VERY strong looking! Nice job.
So the round tubing is 1/8 wall....it makes me a bit nervous.....you still good knowing it's 1/8 and not 3/16 (it's what I could get)? That front x member has a flat plate welded across as a sort of base plate under the upside-down U-shaped channel piece. I assume that is OEM and not a PO mod for strength....that plate is now welded to the tubing along both edges (the tubing is also welded all the way around both ends to the sides of x member), so the bottom arc 1/8 wall tubing sort of replaces that flat plate which was typical jeep frame thickness of a little more than 1/8. One thing going for me is there is a front rectangular tubing cross member right at the front of the frame horns that chuck put in when helping me repair those. I would think That reduces the amount of flex on the frame and helps protect the crossmember under the radiator (the one I just cut the pass through).
I think you’re fine. The tube itself if offering an immense amount of strength. Add to that a circumferential weld will make it bullet proof—even at 1/8” .
I think I have a complete set-up for the steering - the steering gear is mounted such that a power box can be swapped in without modification (hose routing might be a different story with grill in place):
Using the 1" support bearing Roy suggested, made a bracket to mount it on top of the motor mount. It is a bit of a cheap bearing, but there just is not any other options. I used 2 single joints at the base of the column with a very short section of 1"DD between them - they are almost a double joint but with a bit extra length. I needed the length to get a bit better clearance around the exhaust. Ideally, it'd probably be even better to have the support bearing closer to the double joint, but its not too far away.
Need to finalize welding in the steering box bracket, paint some pieces and begin fitting new exhaust routing, modify the winch mount and eventually need to coat the exhaust manifold as well. Don't know that I will have it ready for Utah in a few weeks.....
Using the 1" support bearing Roy suggested, made a bracket to mount it on top of the motor mount. It is a bit of a cheap bearing, but there just is not any other options. I used 2 single joints at the base of the column with a very short section of 1"DD between them - they are almost a double joint but with a bit extra length. I needed the length to get a bit better clearance around the exhaust. Ideally, it'd probably be even better to have the support bearing closer to the double joint, but its not too far away.
Need to finalize welding in the steering box bracket, paint some pieces and begin fitting new exhaust routing, modify the winch mount and eventually need to coat the exhaust manifold as well. Don't know that I will have it ready for Utah in a few weeks.....
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Looks good!I think I have a complete set-up for the steering - the steering gear is mounted such that a power box can be swapped in without modification (hose routing might be a different story with grill in place):
Using the 1" support bearing Roy suggested, made a bracket to mount it on top of the motor mount. It is a bit of a cheap bearing, but there just is not any other options. I used 2 single joints at the base of the column with a very short section of 1"DD between them - they are almost a double joint but with a bit extra length. I needed the length to get a bit better clearance around the exhaust. Ideally, it'd probably be even better to have the support bearing closer to the double joint, but its not too far away.
Need to finalize welding in the steering box bracket, paint some pieces and begin fitting new exhaust routing, modify the winch mount and eventually need to coat the exhaust manifold as well. Don't know that I will have it ready for Utah in a few weeks.....
Great work! I'm waiting on a spud shaft, but I'm following in your footsteps. Thanks for the write-up!
As you can see, I skipped the spud shaft.....seems to bother people here but one less piece to worry about
It works for you, I think for potentially 2 reasons:
1. your manual steering box seems to put your spline end at about where the power steering spud shaft would terminate
2. Your crossmember cutout is deeper than mine. This seems to allow you to put the u-joint at a point within the crossmember. I don't think I'll be able to do that with the way mine is set up.
I've since moved mine back enough that the power steering lines sit just inside of the grill (with trimming inside) but the shaft "should" clear toward the top of my cutout.
Do you recall what your final steering column length ended up at? I haven't cut the worm gear off mine yet, and am totally hesitant on coughing up the money for the kaiser willys steering wheel puller, that I know I'll use once in my life.
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I'll see if I can get a measurement......but I initially cut it off right at the base of the worm gear....after inspecting and pontificating on stuff for a while, I ended up cutting it about an inch higher to make sure I had nothing but clean shaft to work with (I didn't want any remaining pieces of the worm gear left attached). I cut it where the screwdriver indicates....
Now if you are asking about the outer 'column' that the steering shaft goes through, I'll need to get a measurement....I cut something between 2-3" off....if you use a shaft collar to hold the bushing in place, you can cut it a bit shorter without issue. If you use the ujoint to hold it in place, then you don't have as much margin for error.
If I did this project again, I would consider not 'turning down' the end of the shaft from the OEM 15/16" or so to the recommended 7/8", and instead I would have tried to open up the inside of the bronze AA bushing from 7/8" to 15/16" (or whatever is needed to slip fit over the shaft.) The big advantage to this (in my untested opinion) would be the option to grind 2 'flats' on the end of the steering shaft and use a 1" DD ujoint instead of the 7/8" round. I know 15/16" is NOT 1", but I think I would have been comfortable with that fit. Once I turned things down to 7/8, I wasn't comfortable trying to fit into a 1"DD joint, and turning all the way down to 3/4" DD worried me that the flats would grind into the hollow center section (or at least the wall would be VERY thin). Maybe that doesn't even make sense with how I am trying to explain. In the end, I followed the AA plan, turned it down to 7/8, used their bushing as is, and used a 7/8 round joint on one end (and 1"DD on the other).
Not sure I understand exactly what you are saying, but here is a pic of my set-up with a power power box in the mount. As you can see, the splined input for the power box is almost exactly the same as the manual box - just in front of the cross member. The manual box looks to have a long input shaft, but it is pretty much the same length, it just 'sticks out' farther as the box housing is much less massive. If one wanted to only use a manual box, it is possible to push the front end of the box a couple inches further forward (the nose of the manual box is shorter than the power box), and that would essentially put most of the ujoint in front of the cross-member as well. The downside of this is that any angle to the lower steering shaft would have to be accommodated inside the pass through, whereas with the joint inside the pass-through, its easier to accommodate any shaft angles.
I definitely made the pass through hole bigger and higher up into the cross-member.
I pulled my steering wheel many years ago without a puller - I recall it was a PITA and its easy to damage the wheel. This time, I used a large bearing splitter that I had sitting around (probably the large HF one), put the splitter piece on 'backwards' or reversed so the flat section was against the bottom of the wheel (center hole has to be big enough to fit around the column) and screwed the drive screw down against a socket or thick washer on top of the splined shaft. Maybe because I got that thing off years ago, it wasn't particularly tight.
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A couple measurements.....the final length of the outer column housing is 31-1/8"....final OAL of the column shaft is 35-3/4". That 4-5/8 difference accounts for the 3" that the shaft extends above the column at the steering wheel end and the 1-5/8 that the shaft extends beyond the bottom of the column housing. My set up has more 'stick-out' at the bottom than others as I both wanted to use a shaft collar and needed some extra room between collar and the top of the joint for the weld bead (I welded the joint to the column as it's a round shaft).
That is very helpful, thank you for the measurements!A couple measurements.....the final length of the outer column housing is 31-1/8"....final OAL of the column shaft is 35-3/4". That 4-5/8 difference accounts for the 3" that the shaft extends above the column at the steering wheel end and the 1-5/8 that the shaft extends beyond the bottom of the column housing. My set up has more 'stick-out' at the bottom than others as I both wanted to use a shaft collar and needed some extra room between collar and the top of the joint for the weld bead (I welded the joint to the column as it's a round shaft).
I definitely mis-saw (is that a word?) In a previous pic that looked like there was a long shaft coming out the back of your box, which to me looked like the dimensions of a power steering box with a spud shaft. Thanks for the clarification.I'll see if I can get a measurement......but I initially cut it off right at the base of the worm gear....after inspecting and pontificating on stuff for a while, I ended up cutting it about an inch higher to make sure I had nothing but clean shaft to work with (I didn't want any remaining pieces of the worm gear left attached). I cut it where the screwdriver indicates....
Now if you are asking about the outer 'column' that the steering shaft goes through, I'll need to get a measurement....I cut something between 2-3" off....if you use a shaft collar to hold the bushing in place, you can cut it a bit shorter without issue. If you use the ujoint to hold it in place, then you don't have as much margin for error.
If I did this project again, I would consider not 'turning down' the end of the shaft from the OEM 15/16" or so to the recommended 7/8", and instead I would have tried to open up the inside of the bronze AA bushing from 7/8" to 15/16" (or whatever is needed to slip fit over the shaft.) The big advantage to this (in my untested opinion) would be the option to grind 2 'flats' on the end of the steering shaft and use a 1" DD ujoint instead of the 7/8" round. I know 15/16" is NOT 1", but I think I would have been comfortable with that fit. Once I turned things down to 7/8, I wasn't comfortable trying to fit into a 1"DD joint, and turning all the way down to 3/4" DD worried me that the flats would grind into the hollow center section (or at least the wall would be VERY thin). Maybe that doesn't even make sense with how I am trying to explain. In the end, I followed the AA plan, turned it down to 7/8, used their bushing as is, and used a 7/8 round joint on one end (and 1"DD on the other).
Not sure I understand exactly what you are saying, but here is a pic of my set-up with a power power box in the mount. As you can see, the splined input for the power box is almost exactly the same as the manual box - just in front of the cross member. The manual box looks to have a long input shaft, but it is pretty much the same length, it just 'sticks out' farther as the box housing is much less massive. If one wanted to only use a manual box, it is possible to push the front end of the box a couple inches further forward (the nose of the manual box is shorter than the power box), and that would essentially put most of the ujoint in front of the cross-member as well. The downside of this is that any angle to the lower steering shaft would have to be accommodated inside the pass through, whereas with the joint inside the pass-through, its easier to accommodate any shaft angles.
I definitely made the pass through hole bigger and higher up into the cross-member.
I pulled my steering wheel many years ago without a puller - I recall it was a PITA and its easy to damage the wheel. This time, I used a large bearing splitter that I had sitting around (probably the large HF one), put the splitter piece on 'backwards' or reversed so the flat section was against the bottom of the wheel (center hole has to be big enough to fit around the column) and screwed the drive screw down against a socket or thick washer on top of the splined shaft. Maybe because I got that thing off years ago, it wasn't particularly tight.
Started working on redoing the exhaust....didn't want to open this can of worms, but sorta had to. Realizing I am not going to get to the 4 speed this year (or probably ever), need to get things in a functional state ....more on that later ...
I knew I had an unmatched set of manifolds on there....here are the three with the new to me driver rear dump at the bottom:
You can see the upper one has the newer, more square ports, whereas the bottom two have the asymmetrical 'state of Utah' pattern. The standard 225 gaskets don't fit that square pattern all that well (as roy mentioned previously). I will use the matching set, and hopefully improve the y-pipe junction for more even flow (in the middle of that disaster currently).....
I knew I had an unmatched set of manifolds on there....here are the three with the new to me driver rear dump at the bottom:
You can see the upper one has the newer, more square ports, whereas the bottom two have the asymmetrical 'state of Utah' pattern. The standard 225 gaskets don't fit that square pattern all that well (as roy mentioned previously). I will use the matching set, and hopefully improve the y-pipe junction for more even flow (in the middle of that disaster currently).....
I think this is a big step...let's hope it still fits after welding it up:
Here are a couple during mock up ...you know, the fun part where you crawl under and out from under the jeep a few hundred times trimming and fitting pieces - usually smacking your head on something. Remove and install the PITA transmission cross member and skid (both of which are bent and warped from hard wheeling so don't like lining up any holes) multiple times to test clearance. Then tack weld stuff in hard to reach place laying on your back under your jeep on the floor, trying to fit a welding helmet or shield, and then just as you go to weld, you knock either your magnetic mechanic light or the ground clamp off to a spot you can't reach from your current position, and have to completely crawl out to reset. And of course the sparks somehow find the one spot not protected which makes you jump and smack your head again.
Anyway, the new driver side downpipe - I think it should clear the brake lines coming out of the MC, but I didn't actually verify...at some point I decided it was easier to rebend new lines between the MC and junction block than keep fighting the exhaust:
New y-junction tucking around under the T14 and merging just in front of the cross member on the driver side:
It's not perfect - but this new y-junction flows together in a downstream merge. The old one (paid shop work) was opposite of that (no seriously, it merged into the through pipe in the upstream direction) and I think it caused the passenger bank to foul plugs.
Here are a couple during mock up ...you know, the fun part where you crawl under and out from under the jeep a few hundred times trimming and fitting pieces - usually smacking your head on something. Remove and install the PITA transmission cross member and skid (both of which are bent and warped from hard wheeling so don't like lining up any holes) multiple times to test clearance. Then tack weld stuff in hard to reach place laying on your back under your jeep on the floor, trying to fit a welding helmet or shield, and then just as you go to weld, you knock either your magnetic mechanic light or the ground clamp off to a spot you can't reach from your current position, and have to completely crawl out to reset. And of course the sparks somehow find the one spot not protected which makes you jump and smack your head again.
Anyway, the new driver side downpipe - I think it should clear the brake lines coming out of the MC, but I didn't actually verify...at some point I decided it was easier to rebend new lines between the MC and junction block than keep fighting the exhaust:
New y-junction tucking around under the T14 and merging just in front of the cross member on the driver side:
It's not perfect - but this new y-junction flows together in a downstream merge. The old one (paid shop work) was opposite of that (no seriously, it merged into the through pipe in the upstream direction) and I think it caused the passenger bank to foul plugs.
colojeepguy
Colorado Springs
When I re did my exhaust I paid a reputable local shop to do it& they did the same thing!
When I pionted it out to them they said "that's the best we could do in that tight space" (or something to that effect)
I was NOT happy...I wound up taking it to another place and he did it similar to what you're building.