Yet Another Early Master Cylinder Thread

I have been looking at resurrecting old MC threads, but figured here's a new opportunity.

an afternoon down a rabbit hole trying to understand MCs that mount on the frames...

I have a 69, dual reservoir master cylinder with the bolt down lid; Wagner Lockheed casting FF-50314.

I don't see a way to rebuild this heap, plunger 'disk' is rusted into the cylinder and that's bad for me.

Not looking for cheap, not looking to drop gold either, just want reliable.

Looked at Rock-Auto, No duals listed in '69, but '71 had this one - an actual Wagner part:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2150466&cc=1309429&jnid=633&jpid=8

I looked at the Crown automotive website and found the J0945556.

I found a Centric MC 130-63008, but I don't think it's exactly the same (rock auto had pict, then it didn't).

I see that Amazon lists this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Crown-Automotive-J0945556-Master-Cylinder/dp/B00BA788X8

Ebay lists a NOS Bendix #1302 for a American Rambler (this bothers me, old rubber so to speak):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Master-Cyli...Parts_Accessories&hash=item259e352f8d&vxp=mtr

Kaiser-willys has:
http://www.kaiserwillys.com/product/2977/willys-jeep-brakes-master-cylinders-parts-accessories

I'm looking at the wagner parts (now a division of Federal-Mogul)
http://aftermarket.federalmogul.com/en-us/brands/wagner-brake/pages/home.aspx
which takes you to their catalog:
http://www.fme-cat.com/Application.aspx

Which, drum roll...
http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/par...t=Brake Master Cylinder&lu=1969 JEEP CJ5&vin=

A quick call to my favorite local Napa, they cross over to this part number: M36365 (unobtainium in his system)

So, there is a re-manufactured: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/A1C0/1036365.oap?ck=Search_mc59802_-1_-1&keyword=mc59802

A local "Brake Parts Supply" has a Centric 130-63008 $186.12, takes a day to order, the one on Rock Auto was about $106 or so... sorry locals.

And now I'm on the phone with folks at Summit...
FEM-MC59802
they are trying to add the wagner to their inventory... have to call back tomorrow afternoon.

BUT:::<<>>>:::
I'm putting 11" drums on mine (so long 10").

I see that a 71 at Rock Auto has for a whole $70: WAGNER Part # MC56193, which is a 1",
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2150466&cc=1309429&jnid=633&jpid=8

and here's the Wagner link:
http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/par...t=Brake Master Cylinder&lu=1969 JEEP CJ5&vin=

I can't tell though if they're the same, shows an application for 70 to 75 CJ5 and the application also shows a 67 commando, 68 gladiator and others, my concern is not knowing when floor pedals became swingers ("baaby").

Hard not to pull the trigger on the Rock-Auto one. But will call summit back tomorrow to see if they have one.

the local guys are pushing Wilwood pricing... !!

 

What's the ID of the old one, or did I miss it?

 

Lying on my work bench, I'll scrape the rust off tomorrow and measure, likely 1" from what I see.

 

I wonder what the difference is between the '71 cylinder and the earlier cylinders.

The Crown number is clearly a Jeep PN - Google it and you get a bunch of results: https://www.google.com/search?q=jeep+945556&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 - They are likely all the Crown part.

 

I used the one with the bail on top. They are all 1inch from what I saw. Its a 1970 P/N. The first one I got was a rock auto at about 35 bucks. the second one was an amazon prime at 60. those were the cheapest. Replaced the first one because I was unhappy with performance. The problem was with me and not the part.

 

My '70 CJ has the bolt on top cover....IIRC the '71 did also.
Maybe a '71 owner can confirm that.
Hanging pedals started in 72, so that 70-75 listing is obviously wrong for a CJ.

 

My 71 has the bolt on cover.

 

O'Reilly Auto Indicated that the non bolt-on cover type MC was the correct replacement MC for my 71. It did not fit well. It installed OK, but the cover wouldn't go on, because the height of the MC did not extend above the top of the frame, and the MC was too close to the frame for the cover to go on without grinding off the lip on the frame side. I wound up getting the bolt-on type from Parts Train. It's taller than the frame, and worked great.

 

You might be able to save the original.

I've had a couple MC's sleeved and these fellows do nice work..

http://www.applehydraulics.com/brakes.htm

 

update:

The federal-mogul cat system shows the '69 as a 1 7/8" bore for the MC59802

the '70 MC56193 shows a 1" bore.

Nothing from Summit yet. More trolling the interwebs with my 'Google-Foo(dora)' hat on.

found a Wagner MC59802 at Advanced Auto parts - for $160:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/wagner-brake-master-cylinder-mc59802/26946100-P?zoneAssigned=1

resolving myself to significantly more than I expected.

I'd sent a note to wilwood thursday last week, haven't heard yet, but I would think next week...

time to look a little more for a plan Z:

[TABLE="width: 679"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Cross Interchange Part No. for:WAGNER mc59802[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Data Source: http://www.KakaPart.com/parts/wagner-mc59802.html[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Factory[/TD]
[TD]Number[/TD]
[TD]Cross Interchange Type[/TD]
[TD]Relevance[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RAYBESTOS[/TD]
[TD]MC36365[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CHRYSLER[/TD]
[TD]J0945556[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CHRYSLER[/TD]
[TD]945556[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NAPA[/TD]
[TD]36365[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CENTRIC[/TD]
[TD]13058001[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AUTOSPECIALTY[/TD]
[TD]M83008[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Edelmann[/TD]
[TD]80416[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GATES[/TD]
[TD]363650[/TD]
[TD]Indirect Cross Interchange[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

but I'm not confident these are 'as-replaced' cross references: the centric uses a bale close.

 

The Gates number is a hose - http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=3818379&jnid=4&jpid=0

Centric number shows a bolt-on cap http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1618240&jnid=10&jpid=0 - not cheap at $114.

Napa number is NG according to napaonline.com

 

May be that's why it's from "Kaka" Parts...

 

Dane,
Has there been any progress made on the Wagner cast number?

I've been following this thread as I also had the misfortune of putting a 71' application MC from O'Reillys on my 69...

 

I got a replacement from Autozone, that the computer said would fit my 69-70. Mine had a bolt on top, replacement had a bail. It wasn't a direct bolt on. I had to use the old rod an modify it some. It has been working well for a couple of years now.
The new one came with bigger ports and I had to go buy adapters to make my lines thread in. It kind of ticked me off. Had to improvise.

 

Having problems as well. Raybestos and Wagner not panning out. Others seem to be bail tops.

Looking at the wilwood kit that Summit carries that is similar to R&Ps kit. It's about $130 or so and has remote reservoirs which sound nice vs spilling fluid all over the floor and dealin with the hatch.

I see others here have used it.

I'm plumbing new lines as well so fittings can change.

Building a line straightener this weekend.

 

So I guess I've got a question if you may know Dane, but if you have 1" wheel cylinders would it be best to have a 1" bore master cylinder?

 

I am reading on that. I bought new stuff for 11" brakes. I don't know the answer at the moment.

dane

 

Linking to info that Tarry99 posted in another thread and that I've seen elsewhere...

http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/show...c-Brake-Master-Cylinder&p=1095648#post1095648

 

Do you know the size of your wheel cylinders?

 

I bought the compliment of Raybestos wheel cylinders from my local napa guy:

Fronts:
http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magn.../home/catalog/product.html?partNumber=WC18290
looks like 1 1/8" diameter
diameter is 1.125
area is: (1/2 * dia) ^2 * pi or pi * r^2
= 0.9940 sqin

rears:
http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magn...home/catalog/product.html?partNumber=WC370193

Looks like 15/16" diameter.

That's 0.9375"
Radius is : 0.46875
Surface area is: 0.46875^2 × π
which is: 0.6903 sqin.

I'm keeping the 'floor' pedals. I know I saw a diagram around here somewhere that showed it and explained it more.

More coming as I read...