Well It Is Trying To Run

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by DanStew, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. Apr 12, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

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    Just before TDC on the exhaust stroke......No....... as the exhaust valve should be open............this is near overlap when both valves depending on Cam timing will both be open.........for a short period.
     
  2. Apr 12, 2017
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor

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    Just put it on a trailer and send it to me so you can get to work on the Rover.:whistle:

    Sorry. Wish I could be of more assistance. Knowing which timing set you have, gears or chain, is hugely important as mentioned. I'd start with that in order to be sure your plug wires are correct.
     
  3. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    I just came back from garage. charging battery now.

    I found TDC. using two methods, paper over the open plug hole and finger on top. They correlated with each other. Knock on wood it looks like i still may have been a tooth off on the oil pump, i have the points set with dwell meter as to when it breaks and the distributer is over a bit. No biggie. So i double checked the location of the wires. Distributer is CCW.

    So waiting about 30 minutes to charge battery and i will try again. hopefully this tooth off is teh culprit
     
  4. Apr 12, 2017
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Sponsor

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    sending you good vibes! waiting for the good news!
     
  5. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    OK, maybe it is not the ignition fighting me.
    I cranked the rig and used starting fluid. The starter always seemed like it worked fast and fine but it does seem to pop in and out and cause grinding and such. I noticed tonight that if i kept the starter going even when it "seems" to catch and fire, the engine seems like it wants to run and maybe even runs but doesnt catch. Does it make sense that the starter is either slipping off the flywheel or it just isnt fast enough to allow the engine to fire and keep up the cycle?
     
  6. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    Ok now we are getting somewhere. I retarded the distributer a touch and it fired and idled for about 7 seconds. I retarded a bit more and no start. Tried again and it backfired bad through carb. Retarded a bit more and once again a loud backfire. Guess I need to advance more
     
  7. Apr 12, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor

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    Stop playing with it, or you'll go blind. :D

    With respect, IMHO twiddling the distributor is only useful if you have no other means of accurate timing in an emergency.

    Timing is a specification, not a conversation.

    If you have set the points and timing correctly - something else must be the problem.
    Disturbing the timing just introduces a needless variable, starts the whole confusion over again, and covers up any real issue.

    Ultimately, diagnosis is a process of eliminating unknowns - not adding to them.

    Set it and forget it! Then methodically try the other things.

    For instance, maybe an intake vaccuum leak…?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  8. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    I am kind of leaning towards the starter. I am noticing it just not seem to be engaging the flywheel very positively. maybe getting partial engagement, and every so often getting full engagement. Sucks that i just put on a new bendix, not sure why it is happening.
     
  9. Apr 12, 2017
    Patrick

    Patrick Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

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    If it's tuned and adjusted properly, it shouldn't take many revolutions to get it started. If you want to eliminate the starter, put a strap on it and try tp pull start it.
     
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  10. Apr 12, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor

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    x2
     
  11. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    If it had brakes i could pull it, i dont want the kids see me run over the neighbors mailbox again by having no brakes ;)

    I will put it back to where i was at TDC. it did run a true 7 seconds, i guess that was a start.
     
  12. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    I am not sure if it is a 6v or 12v starter Patrick. It is what came with the jeep. Jeep was halfway converted to 12v, it had an alternator but it still had a 6v coil.
     
  13. Apr 12, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL Member Sponsor

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    You mean 5º BeforeTDC, right?
     
  14. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    Right where the points close.
     
  15. Apr 12, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    You want the points to be just on the verge of opening.
     
  16. Apr 12, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    Sorry, meant that way. I had the volt meter connected and it was on the front lobe of the distributer
     
  17. Apr 13, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    So I went back at the motor tonight. I took off the fender and looked to see if i could see a timing mark on the flywheel. I thought the flywheel was installed wrong, but i think i just couldnt see the mark. The flywheel is correct and i turned the flywheel to 5 degree mark and adjusted distributer to it opens with a volt meter. I locked it down. I put everything back together and then sprayed some starting fluid in it and cranked it up. Starter still making noises and you can see the crank pulley move nad stop and move and stop, the bendix was not grabbing the flywheel. I also had a real good backfire though the carb, with flames this time, it was spectacular.

    I stopped playing with that and took the starter off. My bendix was new and it looked to be in fine shape.
    I ran my fingers on the flywheel and i noticed the teeth were very sharp and felt bad
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Well it looks like i need a new ring gear. This one is damn chewed up and i did not bother to move the flywheel all the way around to look at other teeth, probably more of the same. Soooooo it looks like i have to pull the motor and get myself a new ring gear. hopefully this is the reason it just is not catching to start.
     
  18. Apr 13, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

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    Got any pics ?????
     
  19. Apr 13, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

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    Are you sure you're still not 180 degrees off on the timing???..........backfires and a starter struggling to turn over a motor is some of those symptoms............you must first find TDC on the compression firing stroke.........easy by cranking the motor over by hand and watching the valve action...........first the exhaust opens and closes and then the intake opens and closes and the next time by your 5 degree mark stop there and set your rotor to point to # 1 plug wire and so forth....check your electrical and verify you have 12v and also that the coil is 12 volts and wired properly ...........which if I remember correctly and I could be wrong on those old motors the minus side of the coil goes to the point set?..............If it has fuel and 12 volts it should start......
     
  20. Apr 13, 2017
    DanStew

    DanStew Incorrigible. Staff Member Sponsor

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    The starter is not bogging down, it just is slipping real bad and at times barely making contact.
    I am certain about the timing being set now.
    The backfire is not all the tire, i am calling that one on a lean issue.
    12v system is confirmed. new coil, new ballast resitor, new plug, cap, rotora plugs
     

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