Welding help.

Hi

Ok first of all I spent the weekend taking the jeep apart so I can fix the frame. I learned the hard top and som e creative previous owner mods were the only thing holding the jeep together and actually more rusted than I thought.

As I literaly cut the last piece plastic street sign from the floor I heard snapping and popping noises and came with in an inch os snapping the empty lower body in half from its own weight. Currently its held together with two pieces of webbing.

Don't worry there are lots of pictures and a small description of all the destruction that will be posted in a few days.

For now I had to weld some quick braces together to support the body weight so I can lift it off the frame and repair both the body and frame separately.

Thats were the problems started. First its 94 degrees outside 89 now that the sun is down. Not pleasant weather for welding to begin with. It was a bit warm. I had some old angle iron from a neighbors disgarded bed frame and figured its free and its only a disposable brace so I sanded the pant off and cut it to shape. I have been welding for about 6 years, 2 of them in my shop with my own equipment. Its a decent lincoln mig/ flux core machine. I was using 035 flux cored wire since I wanted to save the gas for the thin sheet metal work later.

The metal was just over 12 guage so I setup at current level C and wire speed of 2.5 Thats been a good combination many many times with similar metal on my setup. For some reason I could not get decent penatration at all, and even holding a good arc was taking some effort. So I rased the current, no change. At my highest current level I normally weld 1/2 inch in a single pass with about 85% penetration. At high current I should have been punching holes through the thin metal like wet tissue paper, but I could only get junk and splatter.
I changed wire speed up and down. No change. I re sanded the metal and then hit it with the grinder. It was bare clean metal. I took the ground clamp appart and cleaned it end to end including the wires.

Besides the poor welds I could not keep the machine running for more than 2 inches with out tripping the breakers in the garrage. I normally can run 20-30 inches at high current and the circuits are fine. Also I am not new to welding or this machine. I have never had a problem like this before.
Its hot, Its after 10 pm my equipment is not working and I am getting agrivated and can't think straight. What am I missing?

Anyone have any thoughts??? ...Btw I don't want to hear that my welder has a bad transformer or something, That would not be good. Also yes I have quit for the evening and have a beer in front of me so I suppose I have started to fix my own problem. Still any new ideas may be helpful for tomorrow. Thanks for your help.

 

grab a couple of pieces of known metal and try on them. this will tell you if it is the machine or not.

 

The polarity idea was a good one, but unfortunately, yes it was correct. I changed it when i switched wire, and I actually checked the lincoln book to verify correct polarity.

I hope it will be something stupid like a bad section of wire, just bad cheap metal, or even temperature or humidity in the garrage.

I'll try some good metal this evening.

Even user error would be a very welcome posibility. I would much rather admit to being dumb for a minute, than pay to have my welder repaired or replaced. Especially with a ton of fabrication and welding projects to do in the next few weeks.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

Plugged into your normal outlet? High enough amprage outlet?
Had something similar when I plugged into a lesser amperage outlet. No penetration, and kept tripping the breaker. Soon as I plugged into the 20 amp outlet, I was golden. That was on 1/4" stock though....

 

My only welding experience is with gas, so I can't help at that end.

However, you should be able to boost the duty cycle of your equipment with some extra cooling fans. I've used fans from refrigerators and equipment cabinets. Be sure to check the voltage - many fans run of off low voltage from the power supply. I know where I could dumpster-dive to get some around here... look for discarded equipment cabinets, or maybe electronics surplus stores?

 

actually its not the welder overheating, its the circuit box on the wall. I like the extra cooling fan ide however for a later date. Thanks for the offer of cooling fans as well. but I am a biomedical electronics engineer. I have boxes and boxes of junk computer fans around here. Maybe a few will find there way to my shop later.

As for power outlet in general... Hmmm. Its a 30amp stretched about 35 feet so basically a 20 plus, but now that you mention it.... I just bought a plasma cutter and made a new 12ft extension cord to run it the other day. I had that cord sitting on the work bench and used it instead of my normal welder cord. I am starting to wonder if I wired it backwards of did not make a good connection somewhere.

The plasma cutter was tripping the breaker like crazy to. Just figured its a big machine, i was pushing it hard to see what it can do, and I needed a better electrical service in the garage one day. The idea of a bad extension cord is starting to sound real nice to me.

Thanks

 

Bed rails are not junk but they are a very tough type of material to weld. My honest opinion about the bed rails is to always avoid them if possible, some are made of normal steel others are made very tough. They are actually roll formed and hammered which means you are basically welding a hammer forged wrench.

 

I have a little Lincoln Weld Pack 100 (just for the small stuff) and it only runs flux cored wire. Over the last few years I have purchased several bad rolls of wire and I mean welds horribly. Not only a bad spot I mean the whole roll. Its almost like a gamble. I even started purchasing the smaller rolls just so I dont have a large roll of bad wire.

 

Well I got home from work and figured I had to go back to welding.

Good news my lincoln is working perfectly. No problems with the machine.

First my 12 ft extension cord was not great. 10guage wire, but it was made from an old scrap I had around and i guess it has seen better days.

I let the machine feed out about 25 feet of wire and disgarded it, just in case it was bad.

I was able to get a decent arc with out it. I still was not getting great penatration however, but I was doing better. I was still tripping breakers on the wall prety quick. I decided to check the pannel. Should have done that before. The one I always use for my work bench and welder is marked 20 amps. The one next to it is also marked 20 amps. For some reason I never noticed I was on the first circuit.

My next problem was heat. Just for fun I put a fan infront of the pannel box. That made a difference, I could weld maybe 2x as long, still nothing impressive.

I use this machine in the same place about 5-6 times a month this was the first time I had problems. Usually on a lower setting, but this was not exactly thick metal. I did switch to a different heavy duty extension cord, about 20 feet long and plugged into a circuit on the second 20 amp breaker.

Big difference, my machine was making nice smooth deep welds, but did eventually start to trip the breaker. I really think the electrical service in the garrage is just old and the fuse pannel needs to be replaced. Its ok when the weather is cold and fair if I keep cooling it with a fan, but it just can't handle the current I need in 90 degree heat. That is probably a fire hazzard waiting to happen so I think I have to call in an electrician and re-wire it. Maybe a higher amp feed and a few extra 220 lines if I can afford it.

I will agree about the bed rails. This one is fairly tough. for thin metal it did take a lot of energy to cut or weld it. The chop saw and the grinder seemed to take more time than normal. I just assumed I was cranky and impatient, but it might be a harder metal. It was strangely rust free as well and it had been sitting out in the rain for about 6 months. Who knew they would use real metal on something like that.


Thanks again for all the help.

 

They sorta take a pretty good pounding in the long run if you know what I mean, especially considering the weight and everything.
Oh and don't forget kids like to bounce on them and the manufactures I'm sure consider this when making them.

 

dang
never knew that about bed frames
thought they were just cheap junk metal

 

Who you calling a kid?

 

Don't under estimate bed frame material. I used some bed frame angle for braces on a utility trailer and had to drill them for bolts. Went through a box of Makita titanium drill bits for a few small holes.

Paul

 

how many AMP service do you have coming into the house, im not sure of your condition at home but i can tell you that at my house i have three AC's going right now and i know they are pulling alot of AMP's.

the other thing to consider, when are you welding is it under peek times of the day when brown outs are common, these play havick where i work as a welder for CAT, the town pays our company to shut down when the supply of energy is needed else where, but since its CAT we have some very big GEN SET's that fire up when the juice is low.

just saying, when you need peek power for your machine it sounds like you are straving it, just my 2 cents, jason.

 

Jason that seems to be my answer as well. There were some minor details that I fixed, but the real problem was the lines could not deliver what the machine needed.

The good news is its really hot and I was not really having that much fun welding. The bad news is I have a lot of welding to do this summer and its still going to be hot for two or three months.

I am considering the idea of a generator or an AC supply upgrade. of course if I had the money an AC would also be nice in the garrage.