Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by mickeykelley, May 20, 2018.
This is good info. Parts breakdown for Lock-o-matics dated 1960.
Just found these images of a Warn catalog from 1964 showing their hubs to fit vehicles by various manufacturers. Unfortunately, the resolution is pretty poor, but the last page shows both Lock-O-Matic and Automatic hubs, as well as Locking and Standard.
On that same page, note also that the hubs for Jeeps at that time were "Available Through Willys Dealers Only".
(Incidentally, it looks like they still weren't listing hubs for any of the IH vehicles at that point in time. Wonder why?)
The above link I posted about the Lock-o-matics came from the post from gotime.
Here's a Jeep-specific Warn Hubs brochure from 1968.
Though still officially "Special Jeep Equipment", there's no longer any indication that Warn hubs for Jeep vehicles were available only through Willys dealerships, so it's likely their previous arrangement with Kaiser Jeep had changed by that point in time. As Donny mentioned earlier in this thread, the same hubs that fit early CJs would also have been sold for IH Scouts.
Note that this '68 brochure and the '64 catalog above both show the "3-ring" Locking Hubs. In this document for Jeep vehicles, they're identified as Model WL-2 / WL-2A.
(A high-res .pdf copy of this brochure can be downloaded here: Woody's 1984 Jeep CJ7 Warn Automatic Lock-O-Matic Manual Locking Hubs )
Dave Eilers from eWillys sent this photo showing several different models of vintage Warn hubs, including an Automatic:
The hub pictured at the top appears to be the "5-ring" manual locking model illustrated in the '50s or very early '60s Warn brochure posted earlier in this thread.
Maybe this is the Model WL-1?:
Cool pictures! That 5 ring hub is very interesting.
These hubs are part of my Warn collection that was displayed last weekend at the Willys Reunion in Aurora, OH. The 5 ring hubs will fit stub axle with threads, so I believe they were earlier than M2 and others. Does anyone know if Warn made a model between the "summer hub" and this 5 ring body hub?
My understanding is that the summer hubs were first, then the 5 ring which needed the extra length due to the threaded shaft with nut, then the 3 ring without the need for the length since they changed the axel ends AND this did NOT have the raised area stamped M2 in the finger grips, then the 3 ring WITH the raised stamped M2 area. But this just me understanding.
That explanation would seem to make sense, though I can't verify it either.
Assuming that this was the general progression of manual hub designs Warn made for Jeeps, maybe the 5-ring hub was the Model WL-1 (which might have stood for Willys Locking hub #1?), followed by the later 3-ring Model WL-2.
I found this Warn brochure from 1959 showing a 3-ring hub, so they were evidently in production by then; if not earlier:
Here's a page from a 1955 Warn Hub Service & Repair Manual showing the 5-ring design - so the switch from 5-ring to the 3-ring non-numbered hubs apparently occurred sometime between '55 and '59:
I would assume it was during this same time period, between '55 and '59, that Kaiser Jeep changed the CJ axle ends. Is that correct?
Interesting logo on the front of this manual:
My 55 had the 3 ring when I got it. I believe the axel are original. FWIT
Bringing it back to the original question as to color, this ad shows the manual hubs all lettering being red. Now I fully understand this may very well be just the art/brochure guys making it look 'good' or stand out for clarity.
The site Glenn posted a link to above, Warn Hubs, indicates that Warn patented their locking hub design on July 20, 1954.
Since they were making the 5-ring manual locking hub in (or at least up to) 1955, it seems unlikely from a timing standpoint that an earlier Warn manual locking hub model could've been in production prior to that time, unless maybe it was produced under "patent-applied-for" status.
It appears from the 1955 Service & Repair Manual page above that there was also an Automatic hub in production for Willys vehicles by that year.
Interesting discussion here! I believe there was an automatic hub that pre-dated the Lock o Matic, then the Lock o Matic, then finally another more simplified version of the Lock o Matic with "automatic" in place of "Lock o Matic" on the dial.
That sounds confusing! This is in addition of other locking hubs made by Warn.
As far as the 5 ring hubs, I have never seen a set, though the is a pair on eBay currently (#2925 7785 5714).
I love all of the information that keeps popping up! Warn hubs were available earlier than I thought which makes it more interesting.
Donny, This 1955 ad features Warn's initial "Automatic" hub, which as you mentioned pre-dated the "Lock-O-Matic". Jeep must have deemed this hub as Approved Equipment very soon after manufacturing began:
The ad for the "Lock-O-Matic" hub below is from 1957, so its introduction occurred within a couple of years after that of the "Automatic" shown above. It looks like these two ads used the same basic image of the hub itself, changing only the lettering on the dial. I wonder if this was simply a renaming of the same hub, or if there were internal differences between the two?
Note that it appears Warn trademarked the name "Lock-O-Matic" in '57, something the company may not have been able to accomplish using the term "Automatic". This may have been one, or possibly the main reason for changing the name.
Very interesting literature. I've never seen either of these, and they pre-date when I thought they were available. It is especially interesting that the "automatic" hub literature states "you can drive at high speed in 4wheel drive on any terrain". The Lock o Matic literature doesn't make this claim, and I've always thought this should not be done, especially on pavement. Maybe they learned something by the time the second brochure was published? I know 4wd on paving with my Lock o Matics will bind the drivetrain.
Mickeykelley, getting back to your original post, here are a couple of pages from a service bulletin you may find helpful as you tear down and reassemble your M2 hubs:
Now this is just cooler yet. This was obviously written for Dodge vehicles due to the vehicle model numbers listed, plus the spline count shown in the illustration is way more than 10. Is there a hub model number for this listed anywhere? I'm sure the service info would of course work for the Jeep too.
Agreed! Just wondering though, I've never tried doing that and then coasting to see if it will unbind.
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