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Varg In Jeep's Clothing

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by ITLKSEZ, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Oct 30, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine! 2020 Sponsor

    Twin Lake MI
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    Watched your video. Suweeeet! What vehicle did your power steering box come from? It’s seems you are turning the wheel a lot more than I do in mine

    thanks!
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  2. Oct 30, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    I have no idea. All I know, it is a 4-bolt Saginaw box that’s reverse rotation. It was a freshly rebuilt unit on Craigslist. It’s about 4.5 turns lock to lock. It came in a box with a part number on it, but I’ve spent a bunch of time trying to google every variation of it to find its application, and I came up empty. :shrug:
     
  3. Oct 30, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine! 2020 Sponsor

    Twin Lake MI
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    I think I am remembering maybe it was stated in your posts that it was from an astro van?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  4. Oct 30, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    The pitman arm, yes.
     
  5. Oct 30, 2020
    Wmi68CJ5

    Wmi68CJ5 Let the Sun Shine! 2020 Sponsor

    Twin Lake MI
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    Ah. I am using a TJ 3 bolt box in mine. I'll have to do some research on the lock to lock turns on it. My steering can be a bit scary at times. I went back and looked at your posts on the ackerman angle and I realized with my J-20 d44 that I narrowed that this angle most likely is off and might be part of the problem. I have a dana 30 I'm thinking of building up to try out and see if that changes anything.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  6. Oct 30, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    The Ackerman won’t have much effect on your steering until you start making a tight turn, then the tires will start scrubbing. But for the few degrees left and right for normal driving, I doubt you’d notice if it’s off.

    The biggest thing I’ve noticed that makes jeeps feel sketchy is what I call the roller skate effect. The way a roller skate (or skate board) turns when you lean, a Jeep with soft springs can have the same (but opposite) effect.

    I realized this back when I lived in PA. There was a road on my way to college that was straight as an arrow, but within 1/2 mile, the pitch of the road leaned from right to left and back 3 times from poor engineering. Every different Jeep I built would handle it a little differently, but the worst was a 63 CJ5 with stock suspension and a 1pc tie rod. It was so bad, I had to slow down so I wouldn’t fly off the road.

    The one that handled it best was the 3b with flat springs and a shackle reversal. It would lean hard back and forth, but continued straight.

    I finally figured out why. As a jeep (with stock leaf spring suspension) leans left, the left-side springs will compress, and the right-side springs will unload. As the left springs compress, they flatten, increasing the wheelbase ever-so-slightly as the solid mounts are inboard, pushing the axle/spring connections outward from center. As the right springs unload, they arch further, decreasing the wheelbase as the axle/spring connections pull inward toward center. Lean left, it turns right. Lean right, it turns left.

    With a shackle reversal, the front and rear springs travel (swing) in the same direction, and the effect cancels itself, and the flat SOA springs in this jeep would have equal up/down arch when leaning in a turn and also aided in canceling the effect.

    Many people here look down on SOA lifts and shackle reversals, but they aren’t all bad if engineered correctly.
     
    fhoehle, blalp! and Rich M. like this.
  7. Oct 31, 2020
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet 2020 Sponsor

    Mississippi
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    Maybe it's a miracle but I have yet to experience bump steer or any other negative effect with the soa. Thanks for engineering the suspension and steering right. (y)
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  8. Oct 31, 2020
    Oldriginal86

    Oldriginal86 Member

    Pasadena, Md.
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    Same principle as a skateboard. Makes perfect sense
     
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  9. Nov 11, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    I was hoping this wiring was something I’d never have to dig into again. I mentioned in another thread that there was a battery drain. I had a ‘duh’ moment when I realized that the volt gauge was always hot, and not just holding the reading from the previous use like I’d assumed.

    I rewired the power supply to come from the “key in ignition” port of the ignition switch. As long as the key (or toothpick, etc...) is in, there is power. This also feeds the relay to power the radio and the turn signals.

    Yeah, yeah, I know, that mismatched fuel gauge will be addressed some time this winter. I’m going to ask Santa for a new generic sender and matching gauge.

     
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  10. Nov 12, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Another box checked off the punch list.
    I welded little caps over the winch bolts to deter theft. They’re only welded on one side, so if I need to remove them, one zip with the cutoff wheel and a quick pry will have them off. They also double as hook points for the bungee to keep the tow rings quiet.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Nov 12, 2020
    Snoops

    Snoops Getting closer!

    Idaho
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    Very fancy!
     
  12. Nov 12, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    At the fab shop I worked at before I moved out here, the majority of what we worked on was garbage truck repair. A lot of them came from inner city Philadelphia and Reading, and one of the bigger problems was stolen hydraulic pumps; guys used them for their low riders. We’d have to get creative with our anti-theft techniques.
    That was in the age prior to cordless grinders. I can’t imagine how bad it has gotten by now.
     
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  13. Nov 12, 2020
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    I might steal that idea... For both.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  14. Nov 12, 2020
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    when I lived out in california . I tack welded the head of mounting bolts
     
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  15. Nov 12, 2020
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2020 Sponsor

    Washington DC.
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  16. Nov 17, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    So one thing I’ve not been pleased with is how close the rear shocks ended up to the tires. The Swampers I built this on were on wider rims and had more room. These tires rub hard when flexed. I’m concerned they’re eventually going to rub hard enough to bend the rod, or at minimum ruin the seals.

    I woke up this morning really irritated by this for some reason, and decided to do something about it.

    [​IMG]

    I cut a mount off...

    [​IMG]

    ...and cut the upper ring out of the assembly. I started with the hole saw, then cut the rest of the way with a cutoff wheel. (I used a lag bolt through the mount to hold the assembly in place.)

    [​IMG]

    I moved it in 5/8”. This should give me some extra room. If it’s still not enough, I can cut the lower mounts off and move them in too.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Nov 19, 2020 at 8:27 AM
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    a project never finished :whistle:(y)
    :D:D:D:D:D
     
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  18. Nov 19, 2020 at 11:42 AM
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    It’ll be done some day when I hit an equilibrium of stuff I can’t live with vs stuff I can look past. It’s getting there.



    Shock mounts are done. I think I will still pull the rear axle out some time this winter and cut all the shock/spring mounts off and rotate them 2 or 3 degrees (to get the pinion angle perfect) and move the lower shock mounts in the same as I did the top. The adjustment I just made is a little better, but I’d still be happier with them a little further from the rubber. It went from 3/4” before, to 1 1/4” after.

    Before and after comparisons:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Nov 19, 2020 at 11:51 AM
    jeepstar

    jeepstar Well-Known Member 2020 Sponsor

    Sheboygan
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    is the ride quality notably different? i wouldnt think 1/2" would be noticeable, but you dont know if you dont ask.
     
  20. Nov 19, 2020 at 12:02 PM
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    The ride quality wouldn’t be affected until I move the bottom mounts, and even then, a difference of less than an inch would be minuscule. Less than I’d ever notice, that’s for sure.
     

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