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Transmission/transfer Case Support And Shims

Discussion in 'Early CJ-5 and CJ-6 Tech' started by truckee4x4, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. Dec 17, 2018
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    hey guys. I finally pulled the transmission and transfer case after work today.
    24134547-FD0F-442D-9212-0106756B7AE0.jpeg
    At some point in the past, the P.O. most likely bashed a rock and bent the snot out of the support crossmember.

    I sourced a replacement from KW. Looking at them side by side, they look somewhat different.
    160FF799-EC33-4DCB-8D14-D773C1DD934C.jpeg
    I’m curious about how much of the difference is due to the bending of the OEM x-member from the collision? To the folks that have dealt with this before, how does the new one bolt up? About the only mod I see necessary is a different hole I’ll need to add for the transmission mount bolt to pass through.
    6BD32721-49BA-4595-9CEF-9902C72DC66D.jpeg
    DC1904D7-3943-4883-AB75-76B8B58BBF0C.jpeg

    Also, it seems like a hodgepodge of shims were installed by the P.O. They total 2-5/16”. The FSM shows four. The P.O. also added oversized shackles over both axles on the springs of that is a factor...

    Wondering what you guys think I should do when it comes time to put it all back in - go back to 4 shims? Make new ones? What is the overall height of the 4 OEM shims, does anyone know?

    Thanks guys!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Dec 17, 2018
    WYOMIKE

    WYOMIKE Oct 1971 pic Sponsor

    Parkman, Wyoming
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    Jan 22, 2003
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    My mount only has 2 spacers ( 71, V-6, T-14), maybe the 86 requires more, don't know. I would think it would take however many it takes to make the side or rotation mount to line up with the hole in the side of the frame.

    Mike

    [​IMG]


    Here are some other pics that may help you some even though it is a different trans.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  3. Dec 17, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    JMO - it looks to me like the cross-member isn't bent. Just the flange is bent, and I'd straighten the flange and use the original part.
     
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  4. Dec 17, 2018
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    Thanks for the pics Wyomike.

    Time, It’s hard to see in the pics I took but to me it does look like the actual member is twisted.

    That being said if I could save it perhaps it would be worth a try? I’ll give it a more thorough examination tomorrow on the workbench - does anyone have a pic of the OEM crossmember our of a vehicle I could compare with?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  5. Dec 18, 2018
    Hellion

    Hellion Rust covered & junky

    Eastern TN
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    Dec 25, 2016
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    442
    I have mine all apart ('68/V6/T-86AA) and the crossmember has 4 spacers per side; don't know if it's in factory condition or not but Johns1967CJ5 has the same config on his recent restoration and his has a known history.

    My crossmember also appears wavy in roughly the same areas but I found no sharp abrasion mark if it made contact with a rock, or something. Maybe the skid plate took the hit and the crossmember crumpled instead?

    @WYOMIKE your skid plate has interesting 'stand-offs' between it and the crossmember, about 1/2" thickness. What's the story on those?
     
  6. Dec 18, 2018
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    The one from KW looks like a F 134 crossmember to me. I used a V 6 frame when I redone my 64 F 134 Jeep. It had the holes for the F 134 crossmember, and the holes for the V 6 crossmember, I just used the crossmember from the F 134 frame and it all went together right. I don't remember if the two were the same, but the two in the pictures look different to me. Good luck.
     
  7. Dec 18, 2018
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    I ran a crossmember that was mangled for a long time with no ill effects. Straighten the old one some and run it.
     
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  8. Dec 18, 2018
    truckee4x4

    truckee4x4 Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Truckee CA
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    KW only has the one: (#7372507)
    Quality reproduction center crossmember to cradle your T-90 transmission and Dana 18 transfercase.

    Fits:
    46-49 CJ-2A
    49-53 CJ-3A
    53-64 CJ-3B
    55-71 CJ-5
    50-52 M38
    52-66 M38A1

    And it does look like it will fit fine, albeit with the holes for the rubber mount under the transmission being too narrow, so I'd need to add one. Before I do that though, I'm going to clean up the old one and see if I can't straighten it out. Luckily I saved the bubble wrap from KW! Thanks again everyone.
     
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  9. Dec 18, 2018
    WYOMIKE

    WYOMIKE Oct 1971 pic Sponsor

    Parkman, Wyoming
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    Don't know for sure, came from the factory that way, there original. I just thought all the skid plates had them. Can't see anything about a RII that would be different then any others and so require the spacers. Will have to look tonight to see why they are there, suspect for some kind of clearance. Like I said, they came with them so never thought much about them. Does anybody see some difference in my skid plate then other skid plates that might show why I have the spacers? The skid plate was part of the RII package, but always thought it was just like all the other skid plates other jeeps had.
    Mike

    upload_2018-12-18_11-7-53.png

    upload_2018-12-18_11-14-54.png
     
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  10. Dec 18, 2018
    Twin2

    Twin2 wasn't me Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    my 71 came with same spacers on skid plate
     
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  11. Dec 18, 2018
    Hellion

    Hellion Rust covered & junky

    Eastern TN
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    Oh that's neat...thank you. Those spacers might be standard and for a good reason. I can't think of a good reason for them though.

    It's possible all the previous owners lose the spacers when doing maintenance on the underside(?). I love all these nitpicky details.[​IMG]

    By the way, my skid plate has got the same general shape and bends in it, but yours has an extra hole in the area that's covered by the crossmember. Plus all the holes on mine are round, not oval.
     
  12. Dec 18, 2018
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    More frame spacers reduces the propeller shaft angle.

    My '73 had the cylindrical skid plate spacers, and the book shows them for '74 and '75. The design changed a lot for the 1976 model, using a pan-like cross member that both supported and protected the trans/TC. Regarding why the cylinders were added, the obvious disadvantage is they reduce your ground clearance by something like 5/8". Adding space between the plate and cross member would give the plate more room to deform before bending the cross member. This could either be energy absorbing, or decouple any plate damage from damage to the cross member, or both. I know my '73 skid had several gouges and was no longer flat...
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  13. Dec 18, 2018
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    WYOMIKE, looks as though you may be missing the transmission stabilizer stud? Looks like this...


    I am not aware of anyone offering a reproduction, but I used the following with a small spacer and the nesting rubber upper front shock mounts from a Jeep JK.

    Omix-ADA 18608.05 Transfer Case Stabilizer Stud | eBay
     
  14. Dec 18, 2018
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Mine 70 is set-up just like wyomike: it has only 2 spacers for the cross-member, but that seems to be standard with the T14, whereas the t86 had 4? It also has the same skid plate with cylindrical spacers - I think those spacers allow the skid plate to drop low enough to clear the parking drum? Again, maybe a difference between the t86 and the t14?
     
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  15. Dec 19, 2018
    Hellion

    Hellion Rust covered & junky

    Eastern TN
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    DING, DING, DING! [​IMG]

    Maaaan, thanks for chiming in FinoCJ. Now I know why my parking brake drum has cut a groove into the rear edge of the skid plate. Bubba did it, not me. Thanks Bubba :steamed:

    I love this forum!

    @WYOMIKE Can you share the technical specs on those spacers? L x W x H, ID/OD?
     
  16. Dec 19, 2018
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist Sponsor

    Albertville, AL
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    My 71 also didn’t have a transmission stabilizer stud. And it otherwise looks like wyomike’s setup.
     
  17. Dec 19, 2018
    Renegade ll

    Renegade ll Member

    Thayne Wyoming
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    On my 71 RII there is a bracket that bolts to the frame and to the transfer case with rubber bushings to stabilize any movement from the drivetrain. WYOMIKE has the same bracket as seen in his photos.
     
  18. Dec 19, 2018
    WYOMIKE

    WYOMIKE Oct 1971 pic Sponsor

    Parkman, Wyoming
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    Like Julius said , our has the stabilizer that bolts to the side of the frame. Don't know if they all got changed along the line at one time or it is a type of transmission that decides.

    upload_2018-12-19_10-13-6.png
     
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  19. Dec 19, 2018
    TIm E

    TIm E Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    NW Arkansas
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    I do have the "Z" bracket from t-case to frame/mount on passenger side as well. My fairly original '68 with V6/T14 also had the stabilizer stud on the driver side of the trans mount, although the rubber was all deteriorated. Not sure how critical it is, but since it was there, I replaced it.

    It seems like an after-thought or add on to help support the T14 since the mounting holes don't line up to center the transmission mount...an out-rigger if you will to maybe stabilize the U-shaped adapter plate under the trans?
     
  20. Jan 7, 2019
    Hellion

    Hellion Rust covered & junky

    Eastern TN
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    Anyone know where I can get those skid plate spacers Wyomike showed us in post #9?
    I don’t wanna half ass it with stacked washers or something.

    Anyone know the dimensions?

    Thanks
     

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