Transmission Ranging

just for added info, I put all the numbers in to come up with this set-up! I wanted to double my low range gearing and still have good street gears. I also tow a homemade t-3 trailer set up as a camper (wt. 1000 lbs. +/-)

This is a '46 2A on a Throttle Down frame, D30 front, high pinion off-set 44 rear, ARB's, disc's all around, power steering...and on and on!

My set-up is; engine 331 ford stroker on propane, T 19 w/ 5.11 1st, 3.15 D 18 w/ warn O.D. and 4.88 gears on 34" tires. For starting it depends on up/down hill, w/ trailer or not.
Off-road I like the braking action of low-low but mostly don't need 1st gear low for anything except really tech stuff and pick and chose the rest for the terrain I'm on. It can cruise down the highway MUCH faster than I want.

Sometimes I find that I would like to have some different gears...the in-between gears 2nd (3.03) and 3rd (1.79) but I can live with it. I do most of my wheeling in Northern NY (ADK)

Dale

 

What cam profile/ duration do you have?
Seems like it should have a wider power band or is it a "sounds bad" Issue? 1000lbs shouldn't be an issue with 331ci and 4.88 especially with the Overdrive to split.

 

I don't have the cam specs in hand but it's a comp cam hyd. roller rather mild (the tech. guy wanted me to up it but I said it's a jeep and will probably not see anything above 5500). I am also using alu. heads, ford 303(?) the ones with the smaller valves, 10:1 pistons (+/-), Edelbrock intake, with hypo cast iron headers that are port matched and cleaned up (I think an old mustang guy would kill for these)!

With this set-up I really don't think I see more than 4000 to tell you the truth, and don't need it!!! The power band with stroker and propane gives me good power when ever I want just...pick a gear and go!

If you want I can look up all the build facts.!?

Dale

 

Na it sounds like it's not a power issue but just not having that happy in between.
I don't know how familiar you are with the letchworth NY area but the portageville hill always got my dad's k30 when pulling the cattle trailer 3rd was too shallow 2nd was too deep so he would have to have it sing for a few miles.

that 2-3 shift isn't any better with the sm465.

 

I’m glad to see this topic is still active. I would like to delve a bit more into transmission gear selections.
I am mainly interested in the various Borg Warner transmissions yet this topic will also apply to others.
My 3 favorite Borg Warner’s are the T15, the wide ratio T18 and the narrow ratio T19.

The T15 shifts better than the T18 or T19.
And I consider it the finest transmission available having the Texas bolt pattern.
Basically it’s only drawback is due to it’s limited
“ Span” which is 2.99.
The limited T15 span can only be improved by installing low ratios into the D18 and via adding overdrive.
Because the T15 has only 3 speeds I feel it is only desirable when it is mated to a D18 / 25% overdrive / and preferably 4.89 differentials.
Ability to “split” the hiway gears becomes extremely important when pulling a loaded trailer or climbing a long steep winding mountain grade.

The T18 is much more versatile than either the T15 or T19.
Unlike the T15’s and T19’s it’s suited equally well for either a D18 or D20.
Also due to its wide 6.32 gear span the optimum transfer case ratio selection is far more variable.
For my needs the 6.32 T18 works out very well having D20 with 3.73 FDR and also D18 with 4.89 FDR.

The 4.02, 5.11 and 6.32 T19’s are all fully synchronized.
As previously mentioned the 6.32 ratio T19 has no distinct advantage over the 6.32 T18.
The 5.11 geared T19 is yet another interesting Borg Warner that I have extensively considered.
And it’s great except I find that any transmission ratio lower than 4.02 is virtually never required for a street “take off”.
4.02 x 3.73 differential yields the rather slow take off ratio of 15/1 and there is certainly no need on the road to start off any slower than that.
Excepting dump trucks the 5.11 and 6.32 ratios are never if ever used much when on the street.
The big advantage of the narrow ratio T19 is that it works out well with a D20.
Because the D20 has no optional overdrive a T19 is a good way to add an extra ratio to the transmissions span.
Unlike the narrow ratio T18 the T19 has a low gear that you normally will use.
There by you have one extra ratio to access on those winding mountain slopes.
To get a good hiway speed I need 3.73 FDR for this transmission.

Stay tuned and I’ll go deeper yet into the mysteries of the manual transmission.

 

When I had my 3b on the road, I used my 1st gear (T18) as a necessity. I would’ve given my pinky toe for a 6.32 T19. I’m running 3.73s on 33s with the F-head. Even now, I’d still love to have a synchronized 1st for the constant Fwd/Rev shifting while plowing in high range. The shift routine into 2nd to get the internals stopped between each shift gets tiresome.

I built the Jeep in this configuration to be able to pull 55mph in low range while racing. It worked great for that; street use was a bit of a compromise.

Oldtime, since you seem to get a kick out of gearing combinations, keep an eye on my Another Rebirth For The 3b thread. It’s sort of a circus, but I’m working on making a 50% overdrive to work with a transaxle on a Volvo 5cyl. If I run 3.73 axle gears, I should end up with 4.64:1 final drive, and a 88.83 CR with this automatic.
When I eventually switch to the 5-spd, all gears are synchro, even reverse.

 

Ahhh yes 6.32 T19 for snow plowing.
Now that one makes very good sense.
Is that used for pushing in low range or high ?
High I would think..

 

imagine it would depend on how much snow you got...
and if you want the torque to twist the frame excessively or only slightly.

 

If you have the bucks for an Atlas transfer case, I think a nice setup would be a Ford RTS OD transmission with a 5:1 Atlas behind it.

• The RTS OD has a 3.25 1st with a 0.78 4th for an effective gear range of 4.176
• The RTS is a car type 4 spd with an aluminum case for light weight but is top-shifted
• Along with a 5:1 Atlas, there are no overlapping gears ratios in high/low range
• The bad part is the long tail section for the factory RTS 4x4 transmission that directly bolts to the Atlas. A shorter adapter and output shaft would need to be fabbed. You might be able to modify a D300 adapter from a T-176, but you'd still need a custom shaft. It might be possible to shorten and respline the existing shaft.

For a light weight and potentially short setup, you have a the following final drive ratios with 4.56 axle gears:

• Low range
  • 74.10
  • 43.78
  • 22.90
  • 17.78
• High range
  • 14.82
  • 8.76
  • 4.56
  • 3.56

Nice and evenly spaced from a 74:1 crawl ratio to a 3.56:1 highway gear.

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For a shorter setup without special adapters and slightly narrower overall gearing, a T-177 and 5:1 Atlas isn't bad either. It's essentially the same transmission without overdrive in 4th and a much shorter D300 adapter on the back.



The T-177 had the widest ratios of the T-176/T-17/T-178 transmissions and is probably hard to find. It sounds like is was used in J10/J20 trucks.

Final drive ratios T-177/Atlas 5:1 and 3.73 gears:

• Low range

• 71.24
• 42.71
• 27.23
• 18.65

• High range

• 14.25
• 8.54
• 5.45
• 3.73

​

 

I use high range exclusively, but my high range 1st/R is very similar to what a stock T90/D18 would be with my 3.73 gears.

 

Fireball, I’m not familiar with the RTS nor the Atlas,
Right the long RTS output would be a concern.
4 usable gears and yes those numbers do look good.

I have considered the Tremecs and I agree the 177 seems to be the best of the lot.

 

My biggest issue was length, my wheel base has been stretched to 86" (if I had to do it over I might go to 90"). So to keep the rear driveshaft as long as possible I went with the T 19! That is the only reason I didn't go with the slew of these modern tranny's...length...did you see the length of their drive train (Four Wheeler, SAS-UA)? Must be a total, w/ engine, of 6' (72") it's OK for the rocks and mountain out west , but for the muddy, rocky, tree lined trails here in the No. East it has limited some trails and not offered the selection of lines available for others!

My first attempt in gearing was in 1976 with a ford 10 bolt top loader which had a 2.78 first...same as the T 90...but MAN could you power shift! the axle gears were 5.38's w/ 30" Desert Dog tires and a mild 289 Ford. Brought home many trophies with that set-up, dirt, sand and ice! I only used high range for the speeds I needed, it did the trick. I did end up added a Warn O.D. but that 289 was happy at 2700 on the street...would go all day at that speed!!!! The only down side was off road performance...just wasn't low enough but was still lower than most of the other "jeeps" at that time.

Now with the stretch of gear ratio's (78:1 to 3.66:1) it gives me the best of both worlds...I don't race any more...it takes more money than I wish to spend...PLUS I have more fun trail riding and camping.

The evolution of available parts has made the modern selection of gears almost hard to digest!!! A.A. and Novak...HELP!!!

Dale

 

The RTS was in 80's ford F-150s.

The Atlas is a aftermarket transfer case made by Advance Adapters. It's modeled after a Dana 300, but has an aluminum case, clockable modern BW style mounting face, a choice of input splines, a choice of output flanges, a choice of 3.0:1, 3.8:1, 4.3:1, or 5.0:1 gear sets, and synchros for shifting. Really nice setup, but not cheap at nearly $3000. Atlas Transfer Cases | Chevy Transfer Cases | Advance Adapters

They also make a 4spd Atlas with a doubler on the front, but that adds length.

 

Oops, fixed the original post.