Tie Rod Ends

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by william_cj3b, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Mar 19, 2017
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b Sponsor Sponsor

    Milton, FL
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    I found a problem with the tie rod ends, or more specifically the steering knuckles on the 3B. The tapers in the steering arms are too large for the tie rod ends. The first sign of danger was finding washers under the nuts during disassembly.

    Maybe my steering knuckles are from something else. The tapered holes are clean and don't appear to be modified.

    Do M38A1's have a larger taper on the tie rod ends? I know the threads and tubes are larger on an A1 but I thought the knuckles were the same.
     
  2. Mar 21, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

    Apopka, Fl
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    I'd bet the stud on the tie rod end is bigger too for the A1. Got any extra knuckles on parts Jeeps?
     
  3. Mar 21, 2017
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy Sponsor

    York, PA
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    I'd like to know more about this. Let us know what you find out.
     
  4. Mar 21, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Hmmmm, one military parts supplier states there isn't a difference.
     
  5. Mar 21, 2017
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b Sponsor Sponsor

    Milton, FL
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    You'd think I would. I've pulled 3 sets and only have one good left knuckle so far. Bad threads and/or cracks on all the others. On the upside I have three sets of spare axles, spindles and hubs.
    Everything points to my knuckles being modified. I called a buddy with an A1 this morning. He said the knuckles are identical. Also, all the parts vendors list the same p/n for the A1 and CJ's.
     
  6. Mar 21, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    I'm pretty sure, as you have found out already, the knuckles are the same.
    It's the tie rod tube and threaded shanks of the tie rod ends that are larger diameter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  7. Mar 21, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Left as in drivers' side? Seems like I've read about bushings being inserted?
     
  8. Mar 21, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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  9. Mar 22, 2017
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b Sponsor Sponsor

    Milton, FL
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  10. Mar 22, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    You have more spares than I thought! :coffee::)
     
  11. Mar 22, 2017
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b Sponsor Sponsor

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    Admittedly, I am a bit of a pack rat. I found a pto winch, T98, D18, and twin-stick pto in the connex while looking for spare knuckles the other night. I don't remember where I got them :oops:
     
  12. Mar 22, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    I wish I could have a connex at my house, I would undoubtedly have many more spare parts. :coffee::)
     
  13. Mar 22, 2017
    Framer Mike P

    Framer Mike P Member

    Hopkinton, NH
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    I think I suspect something is up with the tie rod ends rather than the knuckles. I have the washers under the tie rod end nuts on our 55 cj5. They have been there since doing a saginaw swap around 1982 - I do not remember if the tie rod ends were supplied by advanced adapters in the steering kit or not but they were new at the time. A few years ago I installed a two hole knuckle. I reinstalled the tie rod end and still ended up needing the washer. I have some crown tie rod ends that I have not tried yet. I think would purchase some new ends and see if they fit better - if not return them and try another brand. While I never liked the washer under the nut I am not sure I feel it is dangerous as long as the taper of the tie rod end is seated properly - please inform me if I am wrong.
     
  14. Mar 22, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    I tend to agree that the washer under the nut shouldn't hurt anything. Just have to make sure that the pivot action of the joint isn't hindered in any way.
     
  15. Mar 22, 2017
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b Sponsor Sponsor

    Milton, FL
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    Yeah, I'm ok with the washers. But, it feels like top of the ball will contact the bottom of the arm before the taper seats.

    I'll try the TRE's in different knuckles tonight if I can get home at a decent time.
     
  16. Mar 22, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    That would be my worry too.
     
  17. Mar 28, 2017
    william_cj3b

    william_cj3b Sponsor Sponsor

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    So, I found a pair of knuckles on from a '70 D27 that worked. The steering arms are thicker at the ends and the new tie rod ends fit perfectly.

    I took the boot and spring off of a joint to check the fit in my old knuckles. The tapers do seat, but not until the ball is in contact with the arm. I'm glad I switched the knuckles out.

    Old knuckle pic: the joint is still very loose and the boot and spring are compressed against the joint.
    [​IMG]

    New knuckle:
    [​IMG]

    I found the cool tags when I pulled the old knuckles off the 3B.
    [​IMG][
     
    Glenn likes this.
  18. Mar 28, 2017
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member Sponsor

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    Excellent!
     
  19. May 2, 2017
    brunester

    brunester Member

    Santa Cruz Ca.
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    Bring some extra tie rod ends....
    I did not bring any spares and was on the top of a mountain, a tie rod end popped, and I had a very interesting drive back to camp.

    Now I plan on carrying spares :D
     
  20. May 2, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Two hose clamps (or strong zip ties) will get you home. (y)
     

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