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The "You're an Idiot" restoration

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by benmack1, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Feb 17, 2013
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    No progress to report, but I need some thoughts on planning ahead.

    As this project has aged and so has my thinking, I don't want to put my 232 I6 and T14 back into it. It's a shame because i think both are good condition and would just take some paint and maybe a seal or two. I am wanting to go with a V8 of some kind and a 4 spd tranny with a granny gear. So......

    I have been reading alot. Not really thinking a 304 is worth the trouble and costs so here are some ideas that I would love to hear opinions about and please toss in a link if you have some good information (and/or pics!).

    option 1 is: Keep it AMC. I am thinking a 360. If I go with a 360, I guess either a T176 from the mid-70's or better a Ford variety T18. Keep the dana 20 I guess. The T18 will need an adapter if I read correctly. Sourcing the 360 I can see is going to be a little challenging as most are connected to auto's and i'd need a bell housing and flywheel which will drive up the costs a bit. Just listing out things to consider.

    Option 2: GM driveline. If a SBC 350, then mate that to the SM465 to the dana 20. This seems like a little more challenging option to put together simply around making sure to locate the mounts correctly but may be cheaper overall and more serviceable with parts availability and also easier to string together the original components from local places.

    Other things - is it possible to put a GM Transfer case in? I guess a NP205 if I read right. I haven't found it in a CJ5 conversion yet but don't know ifthat is possible and again any advantage (like not needing a SM465 to TC adapter) would be realized?

    Some final thoughts. If I am changing my driveline from the original, I am thinking it might be a good next step to toss the tub back on the frame to get my spacing right. I was going to install the entire driveline first due to ease of access without the tub but I could totally see me screwing up my mounts without the tub. Thoughts on any of this stuff?
     
  2. Feb 17, 2013
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    Many many of them out there, pretty common conversion.

    Of course it is possible, but a better question may be "is is prudent"

    As you say, you haven't found anyone doing this.

    Probably a good reason for this..................
     
  3. Feb 17, 2013
    rusty

    rusty Well-Known Member

    norfolk,va
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    The only thought I have on this is , If you are ever coming to Norfolk , bring the 232 and T14 with you. I love a 232 and don't mind a T14. A V8 is nice, but how fast do you need to go in a Jeep? :p
     
  4. Feb 17, 2013
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    4,538
    I put my tub back on to get my engine where I wanted it in relation to the firewall. Also helpful to have your shift tower come up in a suitable location in relation to the cover. If I were to go V8 I'd definitely be looking at the SBC 350 as it has the most support and availability.
     
  5. Feb 17, 2013
    aallison

    aallison 74 cj6, 76 cj5. Has anyone seen my screwdriver?

    Green Cove...
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,929
    I'd keep it AMC. Smart money would be a sbc but nothing is cooler than a 401. Except a 360 stroker. But if money is an issue, I'd keep the stock motor in it.
     
  6. Feb 18, 2013
    joshua70x7

    joshua70x7 Jeepoholic

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    I did the SBChevy-SM465-Dana 20 conversion in my 73. It also had a 232-T14. I love it and I would do it again if i had to choose. I have plenty of power and the trans gives you a super low first gear. But there are some mods you will have to make for this to work. You will need an adapter from Advance Adaptors or Novak to mate the 4 speed to the transfer case and it is pricey(i found a used one pretty cheap). Other issues - you will have to move your cross member around to get everything spaced right. You will also have to have motor mounts that fit your GM engine. Several suppliers make those mounts specifically for a jeep frame with a GM motor (weld-in mounts). I also had to change out the radiator - Jeeps and chevys have the inlet and outlet reversed. I bought an aluminum rad on ebay that is made for this conversion. Fits like a glove with the stock rad mounts. The front and rear drive shafts will need to be replaced or redone - one will be too short - the other too long. I had my stock shafts redone locally - about $140 IIRC. OK I'll stop. But again I love this conversion and would do it again. Parts and accessories are everywhere for GM motors.
     
  7. Feb 19, 2013
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Sounds exactly like what I'd like to do. Got any pics to post up on how it turned out?
     
  8. Feb 20, 2013
    joshua70x7

    joshua70x7 Jeepoholic

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    75
    Sorry I haven't done so yet. Most of what I have needed to know on this project came right off this site. I will take some in the next couple days and post.
     
  9. Mar 1, 2013
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
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    166
    I wanted to add one more option to get folks to chime in about. What about a Ford 302 (older 70's model). I have one of those sitting in my shop. It has some blow by so I'll have to rebuild it but I know at least it isn't totally trashed (bought from a friend, was in a early bronco). I was originally worried I don't see many of the ford 302 conversions in the CJ5's, but the more I think about this if I went Ford 302/Ford T18/Dana 20 that might be my best option.

    So what are thoughts on the ford driveline in the intermediate CJ5 chassis. Any links that someone might have handy that you feel are particularly good references to any of these swaps I've mentioned (especially the Ford one) would be appreciated.
     
  10. Mar 2, 2013
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
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    Really like the idea of using the Ford engine and the T18 is practically indestructible. D20 with the D18 internals would be nice for the low range. And as a bonus the distributor is at the front.
     
  11. Mar 2, 2013
    RATTYFLATTY

    RATTYFLATTY I think you need a little more throttle

    Central MN
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    515
    Bowtie or Blue Oval, both good options and both easily mated to the T-18 using factory parts. Starting with a Ford T-18 is a good idea(for the input shaft length) then source a T18/20 combo from a J-truck,/Cherokee or International. Switch the output in the Ford,mate the adapter plate to the back of the Ford, bolt together. You can find a factory Ford bellhousing to make this work. You can also use an AMC bellhousing from behind a 80's CJ Pontiac 151 4cyl, it is a SBC bolt pattern and can be redrilled to bolt to the T-18. I know I have left out a bunch of little stuff but this gives you something to chew on.

    My mid 70's Ford T18 and T-18/20 from a 75 J-truck I started with.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Mar 2, 2013
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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  13. Mar 2, 2013
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
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    166
    Thanks guys. Been reading like a fiend on advance adapters and the novak sites to understand the set ups. The T18's seem to be a bit rare to find in these parts at least on CL anyway. So just to get this straight, the J-truck/cherokee/IH would have the output shaft I'd need to go direct to the D20 from the T-18? Did they also have the spacer/ bolt up adapter on the J-truck from the back of the T18 to the D20? If that is true, i guess I hadn't appreciated that part. I am all over the map on deciding what to do here. Probably going to be as much decided by being able to find the tranny I need as anything else.
     
  14. Mar 2, 2013
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

    Louisville, Ky
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    Nov 12, 2009
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    Go to www.car-parts.com Will search all the junk yards around what every zip code you enter
     
  15. Mar 2, 2013
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
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    166
    After I posted today, I popped onto CL and believe it or not I found a borg-warner T-19. I picked it up for $60. It was behind an IH 6.9L diesel in a Ford F250. I think it has a close ratio 4.02:1 1st gear which is fine for my purposes. I gotta do some research on it, but I think it should work. Now I need to keep my eyes peeled for a FSJ T18 and D20 to grab the output shaft and adapter (I think anyway). Otherwise, I'm gonna take a big hit on the Novak adapter to make this work. So....I guess I am going the Ford or AMC direction as I just don't see chevy fitting into this equation now. This is fun to plan this stuff out and learning alot. Comments always welcome and thanks for those following and chiming in.

    I'll check out the www.car-parts.com website - I was not aware of that one. Treking through salvage yards and CL for parts is quite fun. The wife is totally beside herself on my enjoyment doing this - totally doesn't get it. :rofl:
     
  16. Mar 2, 2013
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

    Louisville, Ky
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    Brain if you use that web site, you will need to know what vehicle the part is in, you can not search for parts as far as I know.
     
  17. Dec 25, 2014
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
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    166
    It's been a long time since I've been at it with the CJ5 project. I have not given up but rather been distracted with my 99 TJ and upgrading that into a trail rig. I'm still working on a new rear axle for that one and re-gearing but I am starting to migrate back into the CJ5 project.

    I had gone back and forth on swapping in another motor (Ford 302, Chev 350, AMC 304/360 etc) but I have decided I am just going to put the original motor back in. Transmission is still unclear but that's for later (it will be a T18 most likely). So the next step is to get the motor cleaned up and back onto the chassis. So the question is where to start. Reminder, this is a 232 with 26K original miles on it. As far as I know it's all completely stock and original. It ran when I got the jeep but I didn't do any diagnostics on it like cylinder compression etc, I just fired it up, drove around the yard a couple times and then began my restoration so it's been on an engine stand for a couple years now. It hasn't probably run much for at least 15 years. What should I do to freshen the motor up and get it ready to go back onto the frame? I guess I don't feel a rebuild is necessary but that's some of the kind of advice I am looking for. Should I open it up and clean out the pan, flush it out in some way (oil has been in there a long time), inspect or what? Comments appreciated.
     
  18. Dec 25, 2014
    aallison

    aallison 74 cj6, 76 cj5. Has anyone seen my screwdriver?

    Green Cove...
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    Nov 24, 2006
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    Glad your back on it. I'm not much of a motor head but I'd at last pull the pan and look inside. Spray some lubricant on the cylinder walls and very slowly give it a hand turn over. Go from there. If all is good, fresh oil and prime the oil pump so you have oil circulating in the motor. Hand turn a little more. If all is good, I'd do compression checks, all new fluids, check electrical, etc and work up to starting it. The bright spot is if you need to pull it it's not that hard.

    Of course if I had to pull it, I'll look at a later I6 stroker.
     
  19. Dec 25, 2014
    benmack1

    benmack1 Member

    North Carolina
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2010
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    Thanks, that is what I was sort of thinking would be reasonable at this point. The motor is out on a stand now. Not a biggie if I don't get it right and had to pull it after its all back in the jeep later, I totally agree. Not sure I can do compression checking until it's actually installed anyway (I don't know how to do that other than rolling over with a starter, which doesn't seem feasible on a stand???). I was kind of wondering too if I should pull the head too or if I should just go with it until I see some reason to remove it. The point of this entire endeavor is to learn so I don't mind pulling the head. Fun to be talking about this thing again.
     
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