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The Blue Lemon: musings and hopeful progress of my '75 CJ-5

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Leftlane, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. Jun 2, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Here's The Blue Lemon - so named after my daughters' children's book. Seemed fitting. Picking it up in late March of 2013:
    [​IMG]
    It's been some time since I posted an introduction and then again in the Rubicon event thread, so I thought I'd get a "build thread" going. That's in quotes because I cannot take my efforts too seriously and do not recommend my hair brained vision and tactics to anyone. I can, however, offer up pics. And who doesn't love looking at Jeep pics?? No one, that's who.

    For the past too-many weeks my CJ-5 was sitting without an interior, a working gas gauge (among other non-working items), and even without wheels and tires. That has partially changed.

    Was:
    [​IMG]

    ...but then my Stockton Wheel steelies finally got finished. I took the day off and motored out to Stockton to pick them up in person. That resulted in this:
    [​IMG]

    ...which is fine if I want to pretend what painted rims and sweet tires would look like. I'm a bad pretender. So I rattle canned the wheels and sourced some BF Goodrich KM2's. That resulted in these:

    In progress of being painted white before final creme'ish color:
    [​IMG]

    Then using the trusty 'burb (which was sold in late 2013) to deliver five now-mounted 33x10.50R15 KM2's on freshly painted wheels:
    [​IMG]

    And when mounted up on the original suspension looks like:
    [​IMG]


    I've got a BDS 2.5" lift sitting in the garage. That's next. Then I need to figure out how I'm going to mount the aftermarket lowback seats because the interior is currently, uh, spartan:
    [​IMG]
    You can see how I pocketed the rear wheel wells to make more room for the Bestop Classic II lowback seats. I expect those to bang against the knobs of my new KM2's, but I did try to make them as minimally invasive as possible. That's a future problem, however.

    By the way - My stated goal for this CJ-5 is simply to run the Rubicon at one of earlycj5.net's events. This year is, unfortunately, not going to happen. Stayed tuned to see if I can pull it off eventually.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  2. Jun 2, 2013
    roadhog304

    roadhog304 Member

    Leon Kansas
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    Looks good! I really like the wheel and tire combo.
     
  3. Jun 2, 2013
    rusty

    rusty Well-Known Member

    norfolk,va
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    Sweet looking Jeep. Wheels and tires look great.
     
  4. Jun 2, 2013
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    I thought Stockton Wheel went out of business? Did I miss something? I'm curious because I would love to have some 15x10s just like those
     
  5. Jun 2, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    They did go out of business... and then they came back under new ownership. Still in the same building they've been in since 1883. I used their restroom and can verify the authenticity of that claim.
     
  6. Jun 2, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    ... I guess on the topic of Stockton Wheel I should add it took a long while to make the wheels - on the order of 5 or 6 weeks. If you can spare the time, they've got a good wheel. My 33" KM2s and each steel wheel needed only 2oz of wheel weight on most of the five to balance; one or two needed 4oz of weights - that was the most. Not too shabby IMHO.
     
  7. Jun 3, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    I mentioned the gas gauge, but didn't reference it above. Here's what I got. I decided on Stewart Warner to match a couple other gauges in the Jeep. I have to admit, there's SW, VDO, and AutoMeter in this thing and I cannot tell which, if any, are original. Doesn't matter, I only care that they work. I like the clean white type on black face look of SW gauges:

    [​IMG]

    ...and now that it's installed, I have accurate readings. One of the PO's replaced the original gauge with an AutoMeter. My guess is that it was for a Chevrolet or similar as the ohm readings seemed to be good coming out of the sender on the tank. When the tank was empty, the AutoMeter read 75% full. Anything over 1/4 read full on the gauge.

    Now I'll be able to tell when I'm getting dangerously low on fuel while bouncing through the Rubicon (gotta keep my eye on the prize).
     
  8. Jun 13, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    BDS 2.5" lift

    Last Sunday I got several hours away from familial and other duties, so I got started on the installation of my BDS 2.5" lift kit.

    Here's everything I got delivered to my door:
    [​IMG]

    Gotta love their boxes:
    [​IMG]

    Here's a side by side of the new front spring on the left and the original (I think) on the right:
    [​IMG]

    Midway through the front axle spring install with the originals removed as well as the shocks:
    [​IMG]

    Several hours later and the front is all buttoned up. New springs, shocks, steering stabilizer (all part of the BDS kit), and also some braided extended brake lines:
    [​IMG]

    The install went smoothly. By my rough garage-floor-to-fender-lip measurements, I gained 2 5/16" on one side and 2 3/16" on the other. I was pleased with how it went together and so far it looks like a very high quality series of components, but I won't know for sure until I get the rear finished, aligned, and then road/trail tested. That's still far off.

    A couple things: I had recently installed heavy duty tie rods and drag links, and thus needed to goto the local hardware store to find larger U-bolts that would accommodate the larger diameter bars for the steeering stabilizer. No biggie. Secondly, a question: The spring U-bolts included with the kit hang way down. See this photo:
    [​IMG]

    My first thought was to cut them down, but then I remembered there's such a thing as U-bolt skid plates. I may order up a set for the front and rear... dunno. Do folks ever cut these down or what?
     
  9. Jun 14, 2013
    johneyboy03

    johneyboy03 The green beast

    Quebec, Canada
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    You can cut it down, won't affect annything, or you can go with the skid plate you're talking about. Personaly i did cut the u-bolt never had issu on trail with that.
     
  10. Jun 14, 2013
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Nice Job,.........With your 2 inch plus lift increase I would doubt that your tires will hit the wheel well notch you did did on the drivers side..............what off set are those wheels and with the 33x10.5 inch tires do they hit on the front inside at the spring turning left to right? If you don't mind what did the wheels cost?
     
  11. Jun 14, 2013
    Alan28

    Alan28 Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor

    Châtillon en...
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    Very interesting photos, I understand what I can do in the future.
     
  12. Jun 17, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Thanks for the comments.

    The wheels are 15x7 with 3 7/8" backspacing and 4 1/4" center bore. I tried to get 3.5" backspace, but the hoops for this wheel didn't allow them to be pushed out that far. I may yet need spacers, but I won't know for a while. Regarding cost, you're looking at over $100/wheel from Stockton Wheel. White spoke wagon wheels were my second choice. They are way more economical than these, but I had this particular look in my head and wanted to see it through. Stay tuned to the thread to see what mods I'll need to make to avoid rubbage, if any.

    I'm hoping to turn my attention to the rear lift this coming weekend. Then I'll need to fab up some basic seat brackets in order to drive this sucker. That's the next project.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  13. Jun 22, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    Saturday's here and I got time to install the rear lift. I jinxed myself when I told my wife the rear would go "way quicker than the front." By comparison, the front was a cake walk. Not because the front's easier, just because everything single thing fought me on the rear. I should've known it was going to go poorly when the first nut I attempted to remove simply twisted the bolt/shank off - it was the upper shock mount on the passenger side. Gack.

    First, the good news. Springs are installed and the Blue Lemon is sitting on its own wheels:
    [​IMG]

    While the new front springs had the same number of leaves in the pack as the old ones it replaced, the rear springs had an additional leaf; what was 5 is now 6. The CJ now has just a touch of the downhill-racer look. That's the least of my problems.

    Next, I rounded the left side hard brake line nut where it connects into the tee. I was attempting to install a longer-than-stock braided stainless steel hose to compensate for the additional lift. I was using line wrenches, but still it rounded over. Okay, probably time to buy some new rear hard brake lines anyway since they're originals.

    And now the problem and question phase...

    After that, when torquing down the U-bolt nuts to the specified 85 ft/lbs, I noticed that the spring u-bolt plates were bending and u-bolt ends were splaying out. This can't be right:
    [​IMG]

    While I was in there, I noticed a gaping hole on the top of the passenger-side axle tube. If I were to ford water, I'm sure it would get into the axle housing. I've got a breather, but it's on the top of the diff cover, not on the axle tube. Thoughts on this?
    [​IMG]

    Lastly, the worst part: In full droop the rear driveshaft binds up completely. I was under the impression that the 2.5" lift would not need angled shims between the axle and the springs, but something is definitely amiss. It's hard to photograph the extreme angle the driveshaft is at, but here's my attempt:
    [​IMG]

    It gets more confusing for me. The left rear spring that came out had a shim on it, but it was same thickness throughout (i.e. not an angled shim). However the original right-side spring that came out had no such shim. Here's a pic showing what I mean - the left side is at the top and you can see the rectangular shim on the top of the spring pack. The passenger side is at the bottom and had no such shim. The wear marks in the rust confirm it had been this way for many many years:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  14. Jun 22, 2013
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
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    Sometimes you might need to space the cross member under the transmission and transfer case down a bit. Brake lines and fittings are made out of the softest metal possible to ensure they round off like that. I usually have the same trouble
     
  15. Jun 23, 2013
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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    the flat shim is a fix for jeep lean .
     
  16. Jun 23, 2013
    '74Renegade

    '74Renegade Active Member

    Fair Oaks, CA
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    The hole in the axle tube is the for the vent line. At least that's where mine is on the 74, I don't have a vent on the top of the diff housing.

    I am no drive line expert, but my 2.5 Rancho lift came with angle shims to raise the pinion angle in the rear. I also had to drop the transfer case output to compensate for the extreme angles. I am currently using 1.5" spacers between the frame and the transmission crossmember. I don't remember the angle of the shims.
     
  17. Jun 23, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    It's funny about that shim, it came from the side that was lower than the other. The placement of the shim is such that - correct me if I wrong - on a normal spring-under-axle setup like mine, it actually lowers ride height (i.e. pushed the spring pack down away from the axle). Whoever or whyever it was done, only made the particular lean of this Jeep worse.

    Sounds like I'm going to need to plug or otherwise get a breather tube for that axle tube hole.

    74Renegade, even with the included shim you needed to drop the t-case/trans mount. Interesting. I'm curious how many degrees that shim of yours is. I'm thinking about the 4° (there's also 2 and 2.5). Sounds like the shim and a trans mount drop is in my future.

    Does anybody know a relevant link to recommended drive-line angles for a CJ5 or any resource along these lines that'll help me determine when I've got everything lined up where it needs to be? It's one thing to stop the very obvious bind condition I currently have, but there's probably a sweet spot that's the difference between two months of service from a new set of U-joint to many years of service. Thanks for all the help so far!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  18. Jun 25, 2013
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

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  19. Jun 27, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    the rear driveshaft problem

    Thanks for the link. That was a good read.

    I managed to get out to the garage last night and measure up some angles with my cheapo HF angle finder. There's a good amount of slop in my numbers, but here are numbers laid out for you in high-tech Paintbrush:
    [​IMG]

    So the lines and numbers in blue are the "slope" as referenced against the horizon.

    The lines and numbers in red are length measurements.

    The green is what I believe is my calculated angle of the rear driveshaft is - 27°! That's bad, right? I have no idea, really. The car-related websites I've found seem to shoot for more like 3°. The Jeep/4x4 websites I've found so far steer clear of recommending an angle.

    The good news is that my rear diff and transfer case angles are pretty much parallel. The problem is the short 13.1" distance this driveshaft has to make up the height differences between the diff's pinion and the xfer case yoke.

    Your thoughts are welcome.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  20. Jun 28, 2013
    Leftlane

    Leftlane Member

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    I reread the above now that I've got my numbers. There is a recommendation for double U-joint setups. Here's a small section of the article:
    A couple thoughts while I grapple with my understanding of driveline angles...

    - This instructional video focuses on "operating angles" as the intersection between components rather than the given slope of any individual component. Here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ-m9ov3wYM

    I'm assuming that the 4xshaft.com article is referring to these same angles when it talks about "how steep can you run a drive shaft". My reasoning is that the term slope is entirely dependent on how the vehicle is sitting on the earth. One could measure a driveshaft while parked nose-up a 30° incline, and in my case you'd see a 62° slope (32°+30°).

    - I'd like to fix my picture to refer to the rear diff as 5° down, not up. The above video notes "up" and "down" as from the perspective of the front of the vehicle to the rear. In that sense, my diff is sloped down (feels wrong, but hey I just go with what smarter people say).

    New diagram of my situation:
    [​IMG]

    So, an attack plan comes to mind:

    I need to see if I can get to under 15° operating angle on my double u-joint setup. I'd like to avoid a CV driveshaft as I don't want to rotate the rear diff up (er... down?) that high to possibly starve the pinion bearing of lube. I'll drop the transfer case mount just as y'all have suggested. I'll then measure the angle I come up with and see if I can shim the dana44 such that its slope is parallel to the output shaft of the tcase. Then we'll see where we're at.

    Actually, I could do this first with another diagram and set of triangle calculations... maybe later. Time for more coffee :tea:
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
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